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I have not contributed to this forum for several years - that has been because arrangements for my son (now almost 17) had reached a fairly steady state. There is about to be a small but significant change, so I need some advice again.
My son has been the subject of a Shared Residency Order for the past 8 years. Under the SRO he spent almost the same time with myself and his mother, but critically a slightly greater proportion with her (8 days each fortnight with his mother during term time, equal time during hols). Initially the CMA calculated that I should pay my ex-wife CM (a small but still irritating amount - about £170/month), later when it morphed into the CMS we made a voluntary agreement for the same amount. The situation has worked tolerably well for the past 8 years, in practice my son spends more time with me than with his mother; more importantly he is growing up to be a fine, well balanced young man.
My son will turn 17 this month (September); he did well at his GCSEs and has chosen to study for his A levels at a school 400 yards from my house. Coincidentally that is the best state school in the county, but it was entirely his decision to apply there and he did not involve his mother in any way (although he and I discussed it). My son wants to continue seeing both of us parents (which is good) but is adamant that it should be on an exactly 50:50 basis. I'm entirely happy with that, my view is that my son is mature enough to make choices about his own life now, his mother disagrees and wants to continue with a very prescriptive arrangement for him.
My son's mother will no longer have any influence over his education or school (which has been his choice), and will have to go along with his wishes to spend half his time with me (in practice he has done for years, but he wants that formal change to be made). I really don't want to go back to court because it was absurdly expensive for what it was 8 years. My son is happy to write down his decision (To whom it may concern... type letter), and I think that will be quite sufficient.
So far so good - I'm happy that I've got my boy virtually to adulthood in good order. The problem will come with that small amount of CM I have been paying diligently via a voluntary agreement for the past 8 years. My ex-wife 's interest has always been about money, she received a very generous settlement 8 years ago (plenty to buy a 4 bed house outright) but I know she would be fussy about losing CM.
Now, it would appear to me that due to The Child Support Maintenance Calculation Regulations 2012: Regulation 50 (I have just read up on this in a thread on this very good forum) there would no longer be any requirement for any CM to be paid. I would never do anything illegal (it has always seemed to me that the whole CM piece is most unfair, but I've always gone along with it to the letter), so my question is: have I understood this correctly - would I now be right to change the voluntary agreement such that the CM payments cease?
I am sure my son's intent is that the CM piece should just go away, and that his parents should be treated as equals (I'm pleased that he has grown up to be such a balance young man). I want my son to concentrate on his A levels, and not worry about any of this business - but at the same time I want the right thing to happen. Any advice on how I should go about executing this piece would be much appreciated.
Many thanks for reading - and perhaps replying.
O
hi,
if you have good evidence now that the arrangement has become 50/50 equal day to day care, send to CMS. its highly likely it will only be accepted if your ex agrees to the change to. without updated court order, it will probably be a real pain dealing with CMS.
@bill337
Thank you so much for responding.
Perhaps I have explained this badly. There is no CMS case to respond to, so there would be no one to send anything to at that department. CM is paid according to a voluntary agreement (using the CMA figures it had worked out prior to its demise). I think I said above that I didn't want to go back to court with this, the magistrates court system is an [censored] that will just cost a lot of money; the evidence would just be my son's will: he wants to write a letter saying what that is, that is all. My son will be 17 in 3 weeks time, and in my eyes an adult. It is hard to imagine that his mother would imprison him and make him adhere to something a court rubber stamped 8 years ago when it is not his wish, but I suppose we will have to see how she responds.
If you are telling me the only way I can achieve this bit of common sense is to return the case to a court and waste another £5,000 on legal fees then it isn't worth doing. The CM for 2 years comes to about £4,000, so spending more than that would be plain daft. If that is the case I will be disappointed, but from my experience not surprised by our society; if it really is true then I suppose I'll just shrug my shoulders and conclude the family legal system is an [censored].
I just want to know whether I can do the right thing by my son; if the answer from the voice of the body of the kirk is that it is a waste of time then so be it.
I do apologise if that sounds a bit belligerent, I'm just looking for an answer to a really simple question.
Very best wishes,
AO.
@othen hi, you would be right to cease child maintenance payments. However, the advice given to you by Bill would relate to if the mother then goes on to open a case with the CMS and provides a copy of the current court order. At that point you will be required to evidence the change of shared care to exactly 50:50 as you say. Unfortunately a letter from you son would not be acceptable, who after all, is still a child. Therefore your options are to continue making the payments as already agreed, or stop them and see if the mother opens a case and either commence paying again or go to court to obtain the required evidence. At court your sons wishes (and letter) will be considered and you may well obtain the court order that you desire showing 50:50. If you self represent your costs would be significantly lower and based on your sons age his wishes would be considered and things should be much more straight forward than when you were in court last.
Lastly, one other thing to consider which is that often, the stopping of payments can cause such acrimony that it leads to the breakdown of the separated family unit thus causing heartache and anguish for the child. Putting in place support to minimise this would also be a good idea.
All the best.
@othen hi, you would be right to cease child maintenance payments. However, the advice given to you by Bill would relate to if the mother then goes on to open a case with the CMS and provides a copy of the current court order. At that point you will be required to evidence the change of shared care to exactly 50:50 as you say. Unfortunately a letter from you son would not be acceptable, who after all, is still a child. Therefore your options are to continue making the payments as already agreed, or stop them and see if the mother opens a case and either commence paying again or go to court to obtain the required evidence. At court your sons wishes (and letter) will be considered and you may well obtain the court order that you desire showing 50:50. If you self represent your costs would be significantly lower and based on your sons age his wishes would be considered and things should be much more straight forward than when you were in court last.
Lastly, one other thing to consider which is that often, the stopping of payments can cause such acrimony that it leads to the breakdown of the separated family unit thus causing heartache and anguish for the child. Putting in place support to minimise this would also be a good idea.
All the best.
Good morn Daddyup,
Thank you for commenting. The part I have a problem with is 'Unfortunately a letter from you son would not be acceptable, who after all, is still a child'. If you are right then I find it quite incredible that the state will choose to treat a 17 year old as a child and not allow him to choose where he wants to live. If indeed you are correct then I think executing this will be a waste of time and money, the cost of a contested court case to prove my son wants to spend an additional one day per fortnight with me would be absurd.
If this is the case I suppose I'll have to tell my son that he will have to grin and bear it until he leaves school (by which time he will be almost 19), and I will have to continue being treated as a second class parent for another two years.
Ho hum.
@othen hi, I agree on the whole with what you are saying, although I'd disagree with one point. Actually the state will allow your son to choose where he wants to live. The problem is that 1) you do not wish to incur further costs putting him in front of the state (I. E in court) to express where he wants to live in order to formally recognise and register this and 2) the mother may well contest things thus increasing your costs and time which you do not wish to incur.
I feel the situation is more about how the system is designed to facilitate this whereby it is cost prohibitive and the only winners are the legal representatives.
I do however, still believe that as you have your son 100% on board (especially if you explain the court/legal process if you wish to) , then self representing would be the way to go for you, therefore other than the initial cost of £215, the only other cost to you would be your time. The advantages of doing so far out weight continuing as you are.
All the best.
Good morn Daddyup.
How kind it was of you to respond again.
You are more or less right, but I'd say that the costs are far from just financial. The last time we went through a contested court case it took me to the very limits of my emotional reserves. The reason I agreed to the 8 day/6 day split (knowing very well it was not really the right thing) was that my ex-wife relented at one minute to midnight and agreed to shared residency as long as she qualified for some CM. I had to stop the madness at that time - otherwise it was going to have a long lasting effect on mental health for all three of us. This isn't really a question of the cost now (I'm not a poor man, far from it), but I don't think I have it in me to do that again, and I really don't want to inflict the process on my son a second time.
It still seems absurd to me that state will treat my 17 year old son as a child. My view is that he is mature enough to make up his own mind about his life now - as he has with changing schools for the VI form (I was very proud of him for taking it upon himself to do that). I'll discuss this with him when he is back home on Wednesday; my feeling is that he won't want to go through the CAFCASS interview again (even at the age of 8 he concluded it was very biased).
I could not agree more that the only winners in these situations are in the legal profession.
AO.
..
with me personally, having more time with kids comes before money. You mentioned your child decided himself to register at a school close to your house. Think best thing to do is let him vote with his feet and decide how often he wants to stay with each parent. also with those CAO court orders, generally are valid until child is 18 years old. So even if you did go back to court, I think it's unlikely they will order any thing new, due to childs age. And since CAO have nothing to do with child maintenance, I don't think they will be interested in the financial aspect. On a positive note, you don't have much longer to go with paying maintenance.
with me personally, having more time with kids comes before money. You mentioned your child decided himself to register at a school close to your house. Think best thing to do is let him vote with his feet and decide how often he wants to stay with each parent. also with those CAO court orders, generally are valid until child is 18 years old. So even if you did go back to court, I think it's unlikely they will order any thing new, due to childs age. And since CAO have nothing to do with child maintenance, I don't think they will be interested in the financial aspect. On a positive note, you don't have much longer to go with paying maintenance.
You are making me sound like Ebenezer Scrooge!
That aside, this may be useful information if you are correct. If a court would not bother to make an order because my son is nearly 18 then that route would be a waste of time (and money Ebenezer!).
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