Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
I work full time (5 days); ex-partner works part time (3 days). Not married. Separated, but still live together in separate rooms. I own the house outright; she has never paid for any bills or mortgage and walked into a life paid for her really. Messy separation; she is a pretty bad mother that shouts at our kids; leaves poo-filled nappies around the house and used rolled [censored] sanitary towels on the bathroom side all day; and feeds them nothing but processed junk when I am out the house. I'm allegedly a serial moaner about her dirty habits (no wonder living with that lol!); and helped her get out of her debts and swallowed them into my mortgage payments. She is sorting her own finances before moving out in the new year to rented property. Our current routine of work and the childcare will not change when we physically separate.
My mother (grandparent) cares/feeds /baths our children for the three weekdays my ex-partner works (Tues/Wed/Thurs); and my partner collects them to take them home for two or three hours at most and pretty much puts them straight to bed. They are usually so excited when I get home that I play with them for another hour on my own unwinding before they sleep (they really don't enjoy the solo time with my ex-partner; our 3 year old has started to say mummy scares and shouts at him which is alarming given the few hours alone they have. The mornings are equally sad, both children shout they only want Daddy to feed and dress them; and other times physically pushing Mum away from them).
We are going for joint custody / care of the kids on the basis MUM = Monday and Friday; DAD = Saturday and Sunday; GRANDPARENTS = Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday daycare only (until nursery begins); MUM has them just overnight.
I am aware child maintenance is calculated on 'overnight stays'. But I believe if I am to be paying my ex-partner three days of care when she only has them overnight; then surely she should be paying a contribution of that to my mother who is actually spending time and money in looking after them; and eventually driving them to and from nursery in the day as opposed to caring for them when they are simply asleep? (if it wasn't my mum, it would be to private nursery which my ex-partner and I would be paying even more money towards).
If the daycare and nightcare cover each other between my mum and her; then that leaves my ex-partner and I with a 50-50 split on the days we have them exclusively. Would I be wrong to believe that there should be little to no call for maintenance her way in this case because the care is evenly split?
I find it somewhat ridiculous that our care situation will not change from what it has always been; but upon actual moving out separation she will be entitled to numerous tax benefits; childcare benefits; discounts and a lump sum of maintenance each month that would actually take her income a level higher than what mine is now (and I am funding a full family of four entirely!).
It seems I'm worth more to her separated than I ever was together, ha! I do know since working out she could be entitled to just over £300 that her eyes have been looking at more premium rentals than before; telling me quite clearly that the maintenance money will not be spent directly on the kids.
Am I deluded to think this is wrong; and that our financial arrangements should indeed be 50/50 as reflected by our care routine when they stay? But if they need new coats and shoes etc, I'd probably pay for these things myself to be fair.
£300 extra to her would be blown on a nicer property to keep her high demands.
£300 kept by me would be spent building wooden playhouses in the garden and taking them out for nice weekend trips to castles and parks and holidays.
Ultimately it isn't about not wanting to pay her; it's that the kids at the end of it will suffer by not having what they could have.
The world is mad.
Hi There,
.
It sounds as though you have managed so far to sort most of the arrangements between the 2 of you, are you able to sort the financial side in the same way, and gain an agreement that neither of you pay anything to each other as you will be having joint care?
.
I seem to remember that if you have proof of equal shared care then under the new CMS system there may not be anything to pay, but you would need to look into that.
.
GTTS
It seems I'm worth more to her separated than I ever was together
You hit the nail in the head with that one. How you work things out depends on how reasonable you both can be. It's tiring hearing about the gender pay gap on the news over and over, ignoring that for the most part it is explained by men either working longer hours, less desirable jobs and even more dangerous jobs.
Back to your case, everything you wrote is correct. The problem you face is that she is not going to agree with it. If you push for it, how likely is she to retaliate by withholding access to the children ? For argument sake, imagine a worst case scenario where she moves with the kids into a domestic violence refuge and accuses you of domestic violence, what do you do then ? Sounds unlikely ? Read around some of the other threads.
Call me cynical, but I think the best thing you can do is to start by establishing a pattern of shared parenting for a few months or even a year. Keep her happy. Pay her the extra £300. Let her have the nicer flat, even if it means you go without. She starts seeing someone else ? Keep paying. Learn to keep you mouth shut and don't start an argument with her, ever. Just focus on establishing a pattern of shared parenting and being a good father to your kids.
After you have done that for 6 to 12 months, apply for a child arrangements order asking for shared parenting. Explain to CAFCASS that you have been doing shared parenting successfully for months and you just felt you needed the security of a court order. At this point the only thing she can do to stop this is accuse you of domestic violence, so make sure you have plenty of evidence (text/whatsapp messages) showing how civil the relationship between the two of you is. If you have been doing shared parenting for months and there are no safeguarding concerns, there's no reason for the court to disagree. Stop paying her. When she goes to the CMS show them the court ordered shared parenting arrangement. Keep being nice to her, but keep your money too, she is capable, she can work.
Yes you will be paying extra for about 12 months. But you'll get to enjoy the next 15 years of your children's development with plenty of access and without having to support a free-rider.
At the end of the day, no matter how good or bad she is, she is the one you chose to mother your children. So while I agree with your points on finances, I'll also add that your children will want to love their mother, their development will benefit from that and you play a crucial role in enabling that for your children's sake.
Hello ElectricTurbine
If you decide to set up your own arrangement, the two of you can agree to the terms of the agreement and include anything you both agree to. This would usually be the quickest and easiest way to set up an arrangement.
If you were to have a statutory arrangement, they would work out the maintenance to be paid based on the paying parent’s income and the amount of overnight stays the children have with the paying parent.
If the care of the children is truly 50/50, including day and night care, there would be no maintenance payable. However, the circumstances you describe is not classed as 50/50 care and the Child Maintenance Service would work out payments accordingly.
If you do wish to set up a family-based arrangement, you can find lots of tools and guides on the Child Maintenance Options website, http://www.cmoptions.org, which are designed to help parents with negotiations and calculations. There is also the Family-based arrangement form which allows you to record your agreement.
If you would like further information and to receive a more personalised service, you can contact Child Maintenance Options directly.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) have a website, ‘Sorting out separation’. It aims to make it much easier for separating and separated parents (and childless couples) to find the support they need, when and where they need it, and encourages them to collaborate on a range of issues. The link is https://www.sortingoutseparation.org.uk/
Regards
William
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.