[Solved] Changes to the CSA in 2014

I ask you, after point 6, what's the point in living?

I have pondered that question on occasion and the answer I am drawn to is so that I can continue to be there for our children.

I know you may have tough times ahead although I am also sure that you will make the best of things for your children and yourself.

As difficult as it seems at times, remember you are the only Daddy your children have.

Be there, be strong....

Regards,

Dave

I ask you, after point 6, what's the point in living?

I have pondered that question on occasion and the answer I am drawn to is so that I can continue to be there for our children.

I know you may have tough times ahead although I am also sure that you will make the best of things for your children and yourself.

As difficult as it seems at times, remember you are the only Daddy your children have.

Be there, be strong....

Regards,

Dave

when this all hit me the same question went through my mind specially since I don't even get to see my daughter (my ex took her from me and I have no idea where they are)
there are still times when that question pops back up, normally when I see that £144 vanish from my account and see the £80 or so left ment to survive me the month.

The thing that gets me through it are the following;
1) friends and family, I would create misery for them if I did something silly, I just can't be that selfish.
2) I will one day get to see my daughter again.
3) If I did something silly then my ex, beezlebub, the evil one, she of many names would have succeeded in destroying my life.
4) eventually the csa will end either by running it's course or by finally becoming fair.

as for the money from the dole...yep it's unjust I'm on such a low wage I get working tax credit...For csa that counts as income so they charge me more. And As you say since we ate not the resident parent we can't claim help that's there for people with dependents, even though that's what we have.

It does feel like we are being punished for some crime sentenced to live in poverty but it will get better one day chap.

There seems to be a lot of help for the resident parent but none for the paying parent, infact all the schemes and protests i have seen online are to get more money for the resident parent and more out of the the paying parent!
no one seems to care that it is a fairy big struggle to have a life while losing 15% of your pay when your a low wage employee. There is no way i could ever start a new family (or date tbh) on the money im left with each month. The fact that this is the first month this year i have got my self something extravagent and it took me 6 months to save half for, another 6months to pay the rest of on the card and were only talking a £400 purchase!

While i agree we should pay something to single parents who are responsible for our children, it should be with in the realms of realistic for the paying parent to afford, the payments are supposed to be so the child would not lose out by being with out a two parent family, but when the resident parent is living with a partner the child is not losing out on that, and is no worse off then if they were with the original two parents.

look at it like this, my ex i know lives with a partner, im told my payment has to come out of my wages as my daughter is worse off due to my absense (they however will not help me get access to my daughter, oh no no no there only there to enforce the law and insure i dont miss a payment) yet if i was still living with my ex i would be pretty pissed off at this extra bloke living there! so no she is not worse off.

Now im trying to do something about this, i contacted two mps of my local town and pointed them at this thread (specialy since the new system is even worse for paying parents (unless they have an amicable ex that is resonable, which lets face it many of us do not) sadly the only way i could get hold of them was via twitter, i have never had to contact an mp before in my life so i have no idea if anything will come of this. I ask any other paying parent, please do the same! let the government know that we are not all a bunch of evil villians letting our kids starve but that the csa needs to be made fairer, it needs to assess the needs of the child, the income of the resident parents household, the income of the paying parents household and devise a payment that is fair for all involved.

Lets not put youthenisms on it, i know from reading here, elsewhere and from my own experince the amount they take is so unfair it has driven many of us close to suicide, speaking from my side thats not dramatisation it was only the points i listed on my last post that stopped me. Im sure it has actually driven some full on to suicide i know it has also destroyed new familys where the paying parent can no longer provide for the new family.

so please if your a paying parent let us get across to the government and to these helpful organisations it is not just the resident parent that needs the help!

*edit*
to find your MP please use http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ (i didnt know when i started trying to get some light shed on this that you have to speak to your specific mp, sorry, im not politicly minded. I have though contacted my local mp, i still urge you do the same, maybe we can get the some attention drawn on the fact it is an unfair unjust system that just persecutes the nrp and rarely helps the child, or the relationship between child and nrp...infact all it does is ruin lifes and destroy familys.

Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -

When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.

The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.

In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.

On the contrary I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation...I find the system of paying maintenance grossly biased and unfair. I agree that both parents earnings should be taken into account and I also think that it should be tied in to contact...I think if that were the case you would see a very rapid u turn, with the PWC eager to agree contact with the NRP!

I agree, though unfortunately, the fairest system would really need to have every case assessed individually, which isn't practical. I agree also about contact being linked to maintenance as long as there were safeguards built in, such as where there has been child abuse or where the NRP doesn't have contact because they don't wish it/can't be bothered. The problem with this, of course, is verification, and ultimately, this is why a one-size-fits-all solution is what they try to come up with.

I totally agree and if the children were not living with the PWC she wouldn't be getting a hefty child tax credit payment each month !!! So what exactly is that for!!

Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -

When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.

The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.

In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.

I totally agree and if the children were not living with the PWC she wouldn't be getting a hefty child tax credit payment each month !!! So what exactly is that for!!

Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -

When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.

The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.

In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.

Thats the other thing thats so wrong about this, the resident parent gets help with the bills, everything from extra help with housing benifit down to extra working tax credit.... however the money we paying non resident parents pay is not even figured in when calculating housing benifit etc....[censored] im on a low wage so working tax credit top up my pay a little each year to push me just past the poverty line....and CSA count that as INCOME! the amount tax credits gice me wouldnt even cover part of one months CSA payment theft from my account.
the thing is the people that decide these amounts are not in the same financial postion as the majority of the uk.... yeah 15% of a large sallary is a lot to more then i pay but then the 85% a richer person is left with is a lot more too, when you start getting to min wage area it becomes a daily stuggle to exist after losing 15% of the pay! and there is no help for me at all.... [censored] even if i stopped paying i would just have the money taken forcably from me, or i would have my belongings reposed and sold to pay it, or i would be locked up.

But what happens if the the resident parent stops access to the child? well nothing...thats none of CSA`s concern, to get access you need to take them to court...and how do you pay for that when you cant even reliably put food on your table? well you cant afford to, i cant even afford the anti depressents im supposed to take as i have no dependent in the eyes of the law and as the csa charge is not counted im not entitled to free nhs!
What if i did get the money would i be able to take my ex to court? no as i cant locate her! i could pay to locate her...but i cant afford to !
how about if i finally did get to see my daughter, would she want to spend time with a father that could not even afford to take her to macdonalds let alone out for the day?

the resident perant has all the rights and privilages the non resident parent has none, bar the right to pay the bill.

I really used to view suicidal people as cowards and selfish, now i can understand why they do it, im not planning on doing something stupid as i know one day this will end, and besides the CSA are killing me off slowly...maybe fast, its a cold winter and well i need to prioritise food over heat.

The system is wrong, its evil and its unballanced.

I saw someone say they cant judge the resident familys income as that would be too much work, thats just wrong, they are ruining my life, destroying my ability to survive and at times my will to exist all to save paperwork.

I want to know how CSA employees can sleep at night, how they justify thier job. government should pay them min wage then take 15% off it away so they can see PARTLY what its like...i say partly as there is more then money at stake here, and i would not wish even these vile creatures that work at the csa the emotional grief that is not being able to see thier own child grow up.

I am in exactly the same position as you!!!!! I have read the CMS will consider what is best for the children if the payer wants Direct pay but the receiver wnats the chargeable Collect and Pay. Surely for a responsible payer the children will benefit by more money for both dad and mum to spend on them!!

If anyone wants this excel sheet, I can send it, you just need to adjust Tax as a percentage of gross, how many nights you have the kids, and what the gross salary is, it will then work out what you are paying now, and what you will pay under CSA3.

CSA3 by the way, by adjusting the gross salary in my excel spreadsheet, pays less CM the more you earn, so the big wigs getting their £60K + in Government will be paying less under CSA3 than they do now, Unfortunately the low wage earners will be paying more!

So, I have just done up a CSA calculator for CSA2 and CSA3.
In my current predicament where I see my 2 kids 2 nights per week, I need to be earning £32000pa to break even, based on NETT = 0.65 of gross wages.
£32000 is 25% more than the so called average wage is it not?

If I rent somewhere smaller, I will not be able to have my kids stay with me at all, so the money I save on rent will be paid out in CM. Not many 'Father family' places to rent for less than £540 pm anyway.

So what to do? Well, same as a lot of other 'absent not by choice fathers', I am going to sell my house, and leave my job, it seems to be the only way.
Live on the dole in a bedsit, where by my calculations, I will be better off.
Not having broadband since I don't have my kids anymore,
not having Diesel to pay,
not having Life Insurance(the kids will just have to be left nothing when I die).
I won't need house insurance, there'll be nothing there to break/steal,
no TV license to pay as I won't have a TV,
no rates to pay since I don't own a bottomless money sucking pit any more,
don't need any bus fares since I won't have any work to go to,
not paying to have a car to drive to get my kids or leave them back again,
and I won't be able to afford a mobile phone to phone my kids and talk to them.

Sure my kids are young, they'll forget me, it's only me that'll keep remembering them and screaming their names!

Food, electric, heat will just have to come out of the £63/week JSA (£70 minus £7 for two kids),
and even though I will be poor, and childless, and wondering how the Government could be so unfair to fathers who do NOT want to be absent, I'll continue to give the finger to whomever thinks the CSA/CMEC is still a good idea!

Here is a ficticious breakdown, costs are real, salary £32000 is not real.
Item cost
Broadband / phone £40.00
child maintenance £247.62
Groceries / month £250.00
Personal Life Insurance £25.00
Diesel/petrol £78.00
House Insurance £22.00
Rent / Mortgage £540.00
Electricity £78.00
TV License £12.50
Rates £83.00
Bus / month £150.00
Car Loan £80.00
Mobile £30.00
Gym £0.00
Car Insurance £0.00
Lunches per month £40.00
Credit card £0.00
Heating Oil £50.00
Savings £0.00

Total costs £1,726.12
Pay / month £1,733.33
Total left per month. £7.21

Putting £32k salary into a takehome pay calculator gives a takehome pay of about £2050 per month (first £9500 is untaxed, remainder is at 20%, and National Insurance is also capped (can't remember what the figure is though), which means that you are about £300 in income over your expenses as quoted. Unfortunately, for 2 children, I reckon the maintenance (under CMS) would be about £426, so you'd lose about £180 of that.

thats the thing though, very few people earn 32k, and if your on that kind of money then although a 15% deduction from it will be a lot higher then 15% from say a salary like mine (a little over 12k) your still left with a lot more money. the cost of living for some one earning 32k is still the same as someone earning 12k (though the 32k person may be more accustomed to the finer things of course but im talking the bare cost of existance)
This is why the people making these rules dont really understand what damage it is doing. This could be also why my MP ( http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/Simon-Wright/4096 ) has not bothered to take the time to reply to the email i sent him, though i like to believe his lack of even the brief of reply is due to the fact he is so outraged by the situation he is immediately taking up the situation with who ever it is that can change it (i can hope). i also urge all other Fathers here that are being effected by CSA to email/phone/write to thier MP, enough of us do that something may get done (use http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ to locate your MP)

The CSA seems to be run on the belief that the resident parent is a saint and the non resident parent is a dead beat sinner who left the resident parent high and try and should be fined out of existance, for the good of the child ofcourse, regardless of the income of the resident parents household or the non resident parents household.

Does it matter that it becomes a struggle to pay for anything beyond the basics of life (and at times even those) ? no ofcourse not, we nrp`s are dead beats,
Does it matter the rp wont let us see our children with out good cause, just to be spiteful and evil? "what?" says the CSA, "not the rp surely not, thier a saint, but anyway we are nothing to do with contact)
Does it matter if we have to miss a payment as its that or rent? no problem says the CSA, we`ll take it directly from your account we dont need to even file to the courts for that....and if we cant find it there we will attach it to your wages directly, and if thats an issue, dont worry im sure we can find something of yours to sell. by the way if your really unable to pay us we can take your driving license away, after all we havent fully crushed your soul untill we take your ability to earn a living away too 🙂 ( since to some that may sound like im exagerating... http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@benefits/documents/digitalasset/dg_198853.pdf or find it yourself by googling "what can csa do if i cant pay" )
Does it matter if my child turns 16 and doesnt go into further education but the mother says she has? ..what the nrp lie to us? no that simply wouldnt happen, but you can pay us to check (this is what i was told on the phone the other day when i asked when the CSA would let me have my life back.
Does it mean i can claim housing benifit, or council tax benifit, or what about legal aid to help me see my child? Nope your the nrp and therefore scum of a standard we wipe from our shoes, you have no dependent in the eyes of the law and therefore no help, oh btw if your getting working tax credit as you earn below what the government says you need to exist, kindly let us know so we can declare it as earnings and steal some of that too oh and no even though the CSA charge drops you further below what you need to exist we wont up your tax credits.
Does it matter i cant afford my priority bills/debts? theres no other priority then your CSA charge nrp, its for your child! how dare you be so selfish!
Does it matter im supposed to be on anti-depresents but cant afford them? Why would we care about an nrp`s health and well being lol just keep paying

I would compare the CSA to the Borg, the whole "resistance is futile" mantra should after all be thier slogan, but atleast the evilness of the borg was make believe, and they could be fought ofcourse.