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..I've been hunting round for information about the changes to the current system.
In 2014 the CSA is to be scrapped and a new service introduced. This service will not be free, theres a £20 admin fee, and there will be charges made against each parent that wishes to use the system, 7% of the amount from the resident parent and 20% of the amount from the non resident parent, and I think thats charged with each payment made.
The whole ethos of the new system is to encourage parents to sort it out between themselves.
Cases where there is DV will not be charged and will be fast tracked!
Arrears will either be written off, a percentage of the amount owed negotiated between the parents or left as it is, but I'm not clear about if its left as it is, who would then pursue the payment of it.
Very interesting indeed - I had an idea of what was going to happen, but not seen it all together in one place.
My ex will not be pleased - she currently pays £5 per week, but I don't trust her to pay on her own, so since it's going up to £10 per week, I will be asking for mine to be administered, so I'll go from getting £5 per week to getting £9.30, and she'll go to paying £12 per week.
what about those NRP who want to pay direct to the parent with care, but the parent with care refuses??
That means the NRP gets stuck with having to pay the 20% hardly fair is it
I agree - I would hope that the NRP isn't penalised, at least initially - if the NRP misses a payment then the penalty should apply in my opinion. In my own case, there is a history of my ex trying to avoid paying, which is why I will want it administered from day one.
i for one am personally expecting all those evil ex's working out they can ripple the NRP even more finacially than they would be for using the CSA.
i'd not be surprised one bit if my ex does!..........think about it this way.......my ex has a new hubby and child...and are finacially quite ok especially with 15% of my wages!!
and there's me.....struggling on less money...struggling to pay off debts in the form of a rather huge legal bill.......and now heres the perfect oportunity for the nasty b*tch to twist the knife just a little bit more!!!
i think the CSA is sh*te......and this new system is just gonna make it even worse for us decent fathers who want to support our kids by reluctantly paying for our ex's holidays and new cars...new clothes etc.... after all there are a lot out there tht do not use al the moeny for the kids who it shouldb be for!
if fathers want to pay...and have no issue in paying.......then why should the ex be allowed to insist on it going through this new system?
I agree with you dad-i-d, at present with my CSA and other benefits my ex is now better off than I will ever be. I wish mine was 15% of my wage at present i have been fighting with the CSA over how much one child costs, I have no problem supporting my daughter, but at £398 a month I think that is a bit excessive!
The Government should really look at what comes into the household income as a whole for the parent with care and see how much in reailty a child needs to be looked atfter correctly. I know my money pays for my ex to be out most weekends. I also find it annoying that even when you pay your money without any issues you are still penalised, I have no idea why??
The CSA are useless at the best of times now we are paying for the priviledge of them being useless!
Yeah I agree with Richie_P ... I have to pay £488 a month for a child I am not allowed to even see because i have been accused of violence even though there is no proof of this at all. I have paid thousands in legal fees while she has to pay zero. 1st thing that she did was join a Gym, hire a trainer, renew all her wardrobe and my 17th month old daughter gets whatever is left. I have two children by a previous marriage and was allowed full access. I paid more than I needed to and was always happy to help if there was anything needed at all. I never ever smacked any of my kids or assaulted my ex wife and she was more than happy for me to see the kids... This country is insane and the laws are easily abused and do nothing to protect the children. My daughter will probably never get to know me or see me all down to her loving mum who really only wanted the money. I woudl not actually begrudge the money if I knew it was going to my daughter... Now I have to pay even more 🙁 is there really any point in actually working any more? I really want my daughter to be looked after no matter what but she is not benefitting. Any surplus should be placed in an account for the child for education or if I lose my Job not wasted by the Mother.
"The whole ethos of the new system is to encourage parents to sort it out between themselves"
That is what they claim no doubt, but it is yet another cut-back on needed services. I am having problems with my ex at the moment as the only way she will pay is through the CSA, I think most people who can sort it out without them do, the rest use it because they have to. And soon my kids money will be given away! Rediculous!
If i understand this right it's frightening stuff. My partner received a letter from the CSA last week after always paying maintenance every month. She only went there to get him back for getting a contact order. (Apparently, wanting to see your kids is an act of spitefulness) She is so very stubborn that I can imagine she will be all for this and my partner will have to pay another £80 or so a month! She wouldn't care that the money doesn't go to the kids as long as he's suffering. And I suspect this will be true in a lot of cases.
Maybe I haven't understood it right. Are the fees deducted from the amount payable or is it extra?
I would imagine the receiving parent will have 7% of the full amount deducted from his/her payment, and the paying parent will have to pay 20% extra.
So for example, if someone has been paying £400 p.m., under the new rules they will have to pay £480, the extra £80 going to the government for admin costs! The parent receiving the payment will get £372 instead of the full £400...so from that one transaction the government will receive £108... admin costs my a**e, the [censored] gansters! 😡
I'm curious what will happen where the payments are deducted directly from the NRP's benefits.
Government has created a scenario which promotes in equality and discrimination. By setting differing access percentage rates RP are still in control of whether or not to use the CSA (?) which goes against their (STATED) ethos. I would love advice on whether anyone has challenged the fact that their ASSESSMENT breaches human rights and damages relationships that fathers have with their children. Mine has gone from seeing him 2xs a month at weekends with stay overs to see my family whilst I now cannot see him at all as I have no money. I dont believe that the CSA takes child welfare into consideration or that it acts in the interest of children it is there to just cream money from a society that is already suffering poverty. Several facts have to be taken into consideration when a relationship breaks down and whilst for a rp little changes for a nrp new housing costs and others have to be met in ORDER for them to be a parent. if a person is homeless and cannot look after themselves how can they look after their child. Both parents need to work towards the childs welfare but to often a RP will decline a reasonable offer because of the emotions attached (from both parties) in the separation. Individual cases need to be put on the back burner whilst the agencies ethos, processes, legality, methods are leglly challenged.
I have read the article and unless I am misreading, it states that the NRP can't be forced into the collection charges as long as they agree to pay voluntarily. So it encourages an 'agreement' between the two parties. If an agreement can't be reached either party can request a calculation at the cost of £25. If the other party agrees to pay then a collection service can't be forced. If the NRP refuses to pays then an application of CMEC costs the RP £100 and then they take 7-12% off the RP and 20% more off the NRP.
I agree that the percentage should be equal 11% each would be fairer.
Any idea when this legislation comes into effect and what the calculation criteria is?
Hi Nannyjane
I’m William, the Child Maintenance Options Consultant.
Thank you for your post. I’m glad you have raised this subject as there are many changes due to happen shortly.
You’re right in saying the government are introducing the Child Maintenance Service which will eventually replace the Child Support Agency. Other Dad.info members have posted questions in this thread, so I’ve split out my post to provide as much detail as I can.
Who are the Child Support Agency and Child Maintenance Service
The Child Support Agency and the Child Maintenance Service are both government-run child maintenance schemes that work out, collect and pay out child maintenance to clients in England Wales and Scotland.
The Child Support Agency manages child maintenance cases set up on the 1993 and 2003 schemes.
The Child Maintenance Service manages the new child maintenance scheme, launched in 2012. It will eventually replace the Child Support Agency to leave one single child maintenance scheme.
What’s happening to the CSA?
The CSA will end all of its maintenance arrangements and let parents know their options so they can choose the right kind of arrangement for them.
Paying parents don’t need to do anything until they receive a letter from the CSA about ending their CSA arrangement, although you could start to think now about the types of arrangement you can make. The CSA will explain in more detail what both parents need to do next when they get in touch.
What happens to your existing CSA case?
Paying parents must continue to make payments until their CSA case is closed, as set out in the payment schedule. Also, parents can report any changes of circumstance as normal during this time.
The CSA will let both parents know what the final regular maintenance payment should be.
Paying parents remain responsible for paying any arrears owed and it is in their interest to clear them as soon as possible by paying what they owe to the CSA. Paying parents should continue to make any arrears payments as per their existing agreement until they are told otherwise.
What are the proposed fees and charges for using the Child Maintenance Service?
It’s not law yet but the government plans to introduce fees and charges in March 2014 for Child Maintenance Service clients.
.
• There will be a one-off fee of £20 for making a new application to the Child Maintenance Service.
People who declare that they are a victim of domestic violence and have reported this to an appropriate person/organisation; or a person under 19 years of age do not have to pay the £20 application fee. But they still have to pay the collection fees for using Collect & Pay.
• For paying parents, a 20 per cent fee is added to each amount of child maintenance the Child Maintenance Service collects from them, if Collect & Pay is used.
• Paying parents are charged a fee even if they miss a payment
• For receiving parents, a 4 per cent fee is taken away from each amount of child maintenance they are due to receive, if Collect & Pay is used
• Receiving parents are only charged a fee when the Child Maintenance Service passes a payment on to them.
There are no plans to apply charges and fees to cases managed by the Child Support Agency.
How can you avoid charges?
The best way to avoid the proposed fees and charges is to set up a family-based arrangement and not use the Child Maintenance Service at all.
A http://www.dad.info/child-maintenance-options/a-family-arrangemen t">family-based arrangement is when both parents work together to sort out child maintenance between themselves, without involvement of the Child Maintenance Service.
However, if you and the other parent can’t agree an arrangement between yourselves and you apply to the Child Maintenance Service, you may still be able to avoid paying further charges.
There will be no collection fees for parents who pay and receive child maintenance using Direct Pay. Direct Pay is when the Child Maintenance Service works out the amount of child maintenance a paying parent must pay, but parents agree between themselves how and when payments are made.
If the Direct Pay arrangement breaks down, collection fees will apply if the case moves onto the Collect & Pay arrangement.
The best way to avoid enforcement charges is to pay child maintenance in full and on time.
Direct Pay
Bobbya & dad-i-d - When charging is introduced, either parent can ask to use Direct Pay, but you may not be able to use your preferred option.
• If the paying parent asks for a Direct Pay arrangement but the receiving parent wants to use Collect & Pay, the Child Maintenance Service will look at whether it’s in the child or children’s best interests for Direct Pay to be used
• If the receiving parent asks for a Direct Pay arrangement, the Child Maintenance Service will always set up the case as Direct Pay
• If both parents ask for Collect & Pay to be used the Child Maintenance Service will set the case up as Collect & Pay
Without a good reason – such as proof of previous missed payments – the Child Maintenance Service cannot force the paying parent to use Collect & Pay and therefore incur collection fees
Direct pay and your past payment history in the CSA
The Child Maintenance Service will have information on whether a paying parent has missed CSA payments in the past, because this could affect whether they are able to use the Child Maintenance Service's Direct Pay service. With Direct Pay, there are no collection charges.
So it's important to pay child maintenance in full and on time as per the payment schedule.
There’s an increase in flat rate payments
Actd - at the moment your ex pays you £5 per week. It’s not clear if she is paying the flat rate or not. If she is, then under the Child Maintenance Service this would increase to £7, not £10. If the Collect and Pay Service was used, you would both have to pay the collection charges – this also applies if child maintenance is deducted straight from the paying parent’s benefits.
If she isn’t paying the flat rate, the Child Maintenance Service will calculate her child maintenance payment based on her gross salary.
Thanks
William
Ok...I am not too sure about this but hopefully someone from the CMO can help.
Currently my son pays the maintenance directly into his ex bank account via standing order.
Before baby was born, he phoned you guys and had the amount he should pay worked out
by the person he dealt with.
All was confirmed in writing to my son.
Once baby was born he set up the standing order in agreement with baby's mother and
has made the payments ever since on time every month.
His ex however threatens him to go to the CSA ( when she " is off on one ") and I wonder
if he would get charged under the new system even though he pays regularly ?
Take care
Kirsten
Hi Kirsten
I think this bit hidden in the above should answer that 🙂
Without a good reason – such as proof of previous missed payments – the Child Maintenance Service cannot force the paying parent to use Collect & Pay and therefore incur collection fees
Ah...thank you so much actd.
Indeed...I didn't come across this hidden bit of info....(perhaps I should get new specs...)
Al least that will come as good news to my son and myself.
Once again...thank you very much.
Have a nice weekend
Kirsten
This is absolutely essential . The CSA has never worked , it created misery for thousands of families and ultimately the further breakdown of relationships between estranged parents ...with the obvious result of unnecessary trauma for the very children they say they are protecting . It couldn't happen quick enough
I think it will cripple me even more, after the CSA take thier cut of my earnings and bills etc im left with on average £80 food and entertainment for the month.
Meanwhile my Ex lives with a new bloke still stops me from seeing my daughter and now i will have to pay an additional 20%
i notice that "gingerbread" is campaigning against the 7% charge to the parent with the child but no one seems to care that the paying parent is being charged so much that in most cases they are in povety (im by no means alone, i have seen cases much much worse then mine)
I do notice that the charges only apply if the parents can not reach an agreement, well who decides what is a fair agreement? what if as in my case the mother who has the child refuses all access to the child, wont even divulge where they live or even communicate with the paying partner, but the paying partner is willing to come to an amicable arangement that takes into account the fact they are on low wage and the non paying partner has a good houshold income...what happens then..i`ll tell you what will happen, the new CSA will just take the money from th paying parent along with the charges and the paying parent will be forced into more debt povety and depression. not that organisations like Gingerbread care about the paying parent ofcourse, we are all clearly selfish gits who want to live in the lap of luxury and see our children starve as far as they are concerned.
CSA the most effective weapon an evil sadistic ex can wield.
I'm reasonably sure I saw somewhere that if you agree to pay (direct pay), then the 20% isn't levied, it's only if you miss payments that the PWC can insist on going through the CSA to enforce payment.
I'm reasonably sure I saw somewhere that if you agree to pay (direct pay), then the 20% isn't levied, it's only if you miss payments that the PWC can insist on going through the CSA to enforce payment.
Thats the thing though, since my ex is not in contact with me (i dont even know where she has taken my daughter) then i doubt i can "direct pay", even though im willing to so it will more then likely end up going against me. she is after all unlike me able to afford legal advice and solicitors.
The whole csa system is built around the assumption that the non resident parent is a low life who refuses to pay. You only have to spend a few minutes on the phone with them to understand that. I dont doubt that there are some out there that have the option to be part of thier childs lives and choose not to, that choose to not pay even when they can afford to, but there is also a lot of us out there that can not be part of our childs lives(in my case an evil ex that i cant even track down), are willing to pay a fair amount but end up being forced to pay a stupidly high amount with no help from the csa just threats. Sadly only the resident parent is cared about. Sorry if i come of as overly bitter but when your on an incredably low wage, 15% is a drastic amount to lose every month.
Under the new scheme you would be paying 12% of your gross weekly wage.
The new scheme gives you two choices. You can either use an amount that you both agree on that covers the costs of raising the child, or you can use a CSA calculated amount - the 12% of gross weekly income.
Your personal living costs will not be taken into account. In all likelihood, the PWC will first give you a figure that reflects the actual costs of raising a child, including housing, power, clothes, food, entertainment etc. It will be a lot more than the current amount you're paying. If you decline that, the CSA (for a fee) will calculate an amount based on 12% of gross weekly income. You cannot decline that else you will not be eligible for Direct Pay.
The best you can do is to stay positive, accept that this will be a cost you have to pay for a great number of years and to budget accordingly. If you let it get to you (as hard as it is not to), it will only eat you up inside.
I am about to find out if I have a job in a couple of weeks.
I have my kids every weekend.
I pay my dues to the RP, as is my duty to my children.
When I lose my job, I will have to sell my house, where the children have grown up for years(I bought my ex out).
I will have to rent, and even if I find a new job which is very difficult where I live, I will not be paid anywhere near what I get now.
So I can see the following happening, and see no way to stop it. Like a runaway train really!
1. I sell my house, my kids have lost their home that they have lived and loved in for years, but it's only a house right? Nope, it's a home that I have as the NRP with my kids, but that's not important in the eyes of the CSA or the Government. I cannot get assistance with rent etc etc, I am not the RP.
2. I rent somewhere that is big enough for all of us, and wait for the redundancy money to run out.
3. I can no longer afford the treats or even to heat the flat I will be living in, and move to a bedsit.
4. My children no longer wish to stay with me because it is too cold and I have nothing to offer them.
5. My Ex goes to the CSA and demands more money because the kids are no longer staying with me. By that time with CSA3, it will be something like £10 per week out of dole money, right? The dole money is the least a person can live on I thought, and £10 has to come out of it?
6. I have even less money, and can barely live, and will not see my children, who are the love of my life.
I ask you, after point 6, what's the point in living?
I ask you, after point 6, what's the point in living?
I have pondered that question on occasion and the answer I am drawn to is so that I can continue to be there for our children.
I know you may have tough times ahead although I am also sure that you will make the best of things for your children and yourself.
As difficult as it seems at times, remember you are the only Daddy your children have.
Be there, be strong....
Regards,
Dave
I ask you, after point 6, what's the point in living?
I have pondered that question on occasion and the answer I am drawn to is so that I can continue to be there for our children.
I know you may have tough times ahead although I am also sure that you will make the best of things for your children and yourself.
As difficult as it seems at times, remember you are the only Daddy your children have.
Be there, be strong....
Regards,
Dave
when this all hit me the same question went through my mind specially since I don't even get to see my daughter (my ex took her from me and I have no idea where they are)
there are still times when that question pops back up, normally when I see that £144 vanish from my account and see the £80 or so left ment to survive me the month.
The thing that gets me through it are the following;
1) friends and family, I would create misery for them if I did something silly, I just can't be that selfish.
2) I will one day get to see my daughter again.
3) If I did something silly then my ex, beezlebub, the evil one, she of many names would have succeeded in destroying my life.
4) eventually the csa will end either by running it's course or by finally becoming fair.
as for the money from the dole...yep it's unjust I'm on such a low wage I get working tax credit...For csa that counts as income so they charge me more. And As you say since we ate not the resident parent we can't claim help that's there for people with dependents, even though that's what we have.
It does feel like we are being punished for some crime sentenced to live in poverty but it will get better one day chap.
There seems to be a lot of help for the resident parent but none for the paying parent, infact all the schemes and protests i have seen online are to get more money for the resident parent and more out of the the paying parent!
no one seems to care that it is a fairy big struggle to have a life while losing 15% of your pay when your a low wage employee. There is no way i could ever start a new family (or date tbh) on the money im left with each month. The fact that this is the first month this year i have got my self something extravagent and it took me 6 months to save half for, another 6months to pay the rest of on the card and were only talking a £400 purchase!
While i agree we should pay something to single parents who are responsible for our children, it should be with in the realms of realistic for the paying parent to afford, the payments are supposed to be so the child would not lose out by being with out a two parent family, but when the resident parent is living with a partner the child is not losing out on that, and is no worse off then if they were with the original two parents.
look at it like this, my ex i know lives with a partner, im told my payment has to come out of my wages as my daughter is worse off due to my absense (they however will not help me get access to my daughter, oh no no no there only there to enforce the law and insure i dont miss a payment) yet if i was still living with my ex i would be pretty pissed off at this extra bloke living there! so no she is not worse off.
Now im trying to do something about this, i contacted two mps of my local town and pointed them at this thread (specialy since the new system is even worse for paying parents (unless they have an amicable ex that is resonable, which lets face it many of us do not) sadly the only way i could get hold of them was via twitter, i have never had to contact an mp before in my life so i have no idea if anything will come of this. I ask any other paying parent, please do the same! let the government know that we are not all a bunch of evil villians letting our kids starve but that the csa needs to be made fairer, it needs to assess the needs of the child, the income of the resident parents household, the income of the paying parents household and devise a payment that is fair for all involved.
Lets not put youthenisms on it, i know from reading here, elsewhere and from my own experince the amount they take is so unfair it has driven many of us close to suicide, speaking from my side thats not dramatisation it was only the points i listed on my last post that stopped me. Im sure it has actually driven some full on to suicide i know it has also destroyed new familys where the paying parent can no longer provide for the new family.
so please if your a paying parent let us get across to the government and to these helpful organisations it is not just the resident parent that needs the help!
*edit*
to find your MP please use http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ (i didnt know when i started trying to get some light shed on this that you have to speak to your specific mp, sorry, im not politicly minded. I have though contacted my local mp, i still urge you do the same, maybe we can get the some attention drawn on the fact it is an unfair unjust system that just persecutes the nrp and rarely helps the child, or the relationship between child and nrp...infact all it does is ruin lifes and destroy familys.
Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -
When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.
The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.
In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.
On the contrary I have a great deal of sympathy for your situation...I find the system of paying maintenance grossly biased and unfair. I agree that both parents earnings should be taken into account and I also think that it should be tied in to contact...I think if that were the case you would see a very rapid u turn, with the PWC eager to agree contact with the NRP!
I agree, though unfortunately, the fairest system would really need to have every case assessed individually, which isn't practical. I agree also about contact being linked to maintenance as long as there were safeguards built in, such as where there has been child abuse or where the NRP doesn't have contact because they don't wish it/can't be bothered. The problem with this, of course, is verification, and ultimately, this is why a one-size-fits-all solution is what they try to come up with.
I totally agree and if the children were not living with the PWC she wouldn't be getting a hefty child tax credit payment each month !!! So what exactly is that for!!
Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -
When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.
The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.
In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.
I totally agree and if the children were not living with the PWC she wouldn't be getting a hefty child tax credit payment each month !!! So what exactly is that for!!
Ultimately I doubt I will get much sympathy but here goes -
When my ex wife decided to go off with another man, I had 4 children at home. I haven't seen any of them for 4 years, and I receive no information about them, not even photographs. There are now only two children at home and eligible for maintenance. I meet my responsibilities by paying £1,000 per month maintenance. In life, if you have rights you generally have responsibilities. In the world of child maintenance you have responsibilities but no rights whatsoever.
The issue is that, when the CSA was originated calculations took in to account both parties financial positions. So if the PWC earned a million and the NRP relatively little, the payment would be very small. This could be calculated on the back of a [censored] packet, but apparently not very well by CSA computers and so this system was simplified. Now, irrespective of the millionaire PWC, the NRP can end up paying up to 25% of net income. This is surely unjust.
In my case, I obviously earn a good salary. However, does it cost £1000 per month to provide for two children above the cost of my ex and her partner providing for themselves. I doubt it.
Thats the other thing thats so wrong about this, the resident parent gets help with the bills, everything from extra help with housing benifit down to extra working tax credit.... however the money we paying non resident parents pay is not even figured in when calculating housing benifit etc....[censored] im on a low wage so working tax credit top up my pay a little each year to push me just past the poverty line....and CSA count that as INCOME! the amount tax credits gice me wouldnt even cover part of one months CSA payment theft from my account.
the thing is the people that decide these amounts are not in the same financial postion as the majority of the uk.... yeah 15% of a large sallary is a lot to more then i pay but then the 85% a richer person is left with is a lot more too, when you start getting to min wage area it becomes a daily stuggle to exist after losing 15% of the pay! and there is no help for me at all.... [censored] even if i stopped paying i would just have the money taken forcably from me, or i would have my belongings reposed and sold to pay it, or i would be locked up.
But what happens if the the resident parent stops access to the child? well nothing...thats none of CSA`s concern, to get access you need to take them to court...and how do you pay for that when you cant even reliably put food on your table? well you cant afford to, i cant even afford the anti depressents im supposed to take as i have no dependent in the eyes of the law and as the csa charge is not counted im not entitled to free nhs!
What if i did get the money would i be able to take my ex to court? no as i cant locate her! i could pay to locate her...but i cant afford to !
how about if i finally did get to see my daughter, would she want to spend time with a father that could not even afford to take her to macdonalds let alone out for the day?
the resident perant has all the rights and privilages the non resident parent has none, bar the right to pay the bill.
I really used to view suicidal people as cowards and selfish, now i can understand why they do it, im not planning on doing something stupid as i know one day this will end, and besides the CSA are killing me off slowly...maybe fast, its a cold winter and well i need to prioritise food over heat.
The system is wrong, its evil and its unballanced.
I saw someone say they cant judge the resident familys income as that would be too much work, thats just wrong, they are ruining my life, destroying my ability to survive and at times my will to exist all to save paperwork.
I want to know how CSA employees can sleep at night, how they justify thier job. government should pay them min wage then take 15% off it away so they can see PARTLY what its like...i say partly as there is more then money at stake here, and i would not wish even these vile creatures that work at the csa the emotional grief that is not being able to see thier own child grow up.
I am in exactly the same position as you!!!!! I have read the CMS will consider what is best for the children if the payer wants Direct pay but the receiver wnats the chargeable Collect and Pay. Surely for a responsible payer the children will benefit by more money for both dad and mum to spend on them!!
If anyone wants this excel sheet, I can send it, you just need to adjust Tax as a percentage of gross, how many nights you have the kids, and what the gross salary is, it will then work out what you are paying now, and what you will pay under CSA3.
CSA3 by the way, by adjusting the gross salary in my excel spreadsheet, pays less CM the more you earn, so the big wigs getting their £60K + in Government will be paying less under CSA3 than they do now, Unfortunately the low wage earners will be paying more!
So, I have just done up a CSA calculator for CSA2 and CSA3.
In my current predicament where I see my 2 kids 2 nights per week, I need to be earning £32000pa to break even, based on NETT = 0.65 of gross wages.
£32000 is 25% more than the so called average wage is it not?
If I rent somewhere smaller, I will not be able to have my kids stay with me at all, so the money I save on rent will be paid out in CM. Not many 'Father family' places to rent for less than £540 pm anyway.
So what to do? Well, same as a lot of other 'absent not by choice fathers', I am going to sell my house, and leave my job, it seems to be the only way.
Live on the dole in a bedsit, where by my calculations, I will be better off.
Not having broadband since I don't have my kids anymore,
not having Diesel to pay,
not having Life Insurance(the kids will just have to be left nothing when I die).
I won't need house insurance, there'll be nothing there to break/steal,
no TV license to pay as I won't have a TV,
no rates to pay since I don't own a bottomless money sucking pit any more,
don't need any bus fares since I won't have any work to go to,
not paying to have a car to drive to get my kids or leave them back again,
and I won't be able to afford a mobile phone to phone my kids and talk to them.
Sure my kids are young, they'll forget me, it's only me that'll keep remembering them and screaming their names!
Food, electric, heat will just have to come out of the £63/week JSA (£70 minus £7 for two kids),
and even though I will be poor, and childless, and wondering how the Government could be so unfair to fathers who do NOT want to be absent, I'll continue to give the finger to whomever thinks the CSA/CMEC is still a good idea!
Here is a ficticious breakdown, costs are real, salary £32000 is not real.
Item cost
Broadband / phone £40.00
child maintenance £247.62
Groceries / month £250.00
Personal Life Insurance £25.00
Diesel/petrol £78.00
House Insurance £22.00
Rent / Mortgage £540.00
Electricity £78.00
TV License £12.50
Rates £83.00
Bus / month £150.00
Car Loan £80.00
Mobile £30.00
Gym £0.00
Car Insurance £0.00
Lunches per month £40.00
Credit card £0.00
Heating Oil £50.00
Savings £0.00
Total costs £1,726.12
Pay / month £1,733.33
Total left per month. £7.21
Putting £32k salary into a takehome pay calculator gives a takehome pay of about £2050 per month (first £9500 is untaxed, remainder is at 20%, and National Insurance is also capped (can't remember what the figure is though), which means that you are about £300 in income over your expenses as quoted. Unfortunately, for 2 children, I reckon the maintenance (under CMS) would be about £426, so you'd lose about £180 of that.
thats the thing though, very few people earn 32k, and if your on that kind of money then although a 15% deduction from it will be a lot higher then 15% from say a salary like mine (a little over 12k) your still left with a lot more money. the cost of living for some one earning 32k is still the same as someone earning 12k (though the 32k person may be more accustomed to the finer things of course but im talking the bare cost of existance)
This is why the people making these rules dont really understand what damage it is doing. This could be also why my MP ( http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/Simon-Wright/4096 ) has not bothered to take the time to reply to the email i sent him, though i like to believe his lack of even the brief of reply is due to the fact he is so outraged by the situation he is immediately taking up the situation with who ever it is that can change it (i can hope). i also urge all other Fathers here that are being effected by CSA to email/phone/write to thier MP, enough of us do that something may get done (use http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ to locate your MP)
The CSA seems to be run on the belief that the resident parent is a saint and the non resident parent is a dead beat sinner who left the resident parent high and try and should be fined out of existance, for the good of the child ofcourse, regardless of the income of the resident parents household or the non resident parents household.
Does it matter that it becomes a struggle to pay for anything beyond the basics of life (and at times even those) ? no ofcourse not, we nrp`s are dead beats,
Does it matter the rp wont let us see our children with out good cause, just to be spiteful and evil? "what?" says the CSA, "not the rp surely not, thier a saint, but anyway we are nothing to do with contact)
Does it matter if we have to miss a payment as its that or rent? no problem says the CSA, we`ll take it directly from your account we dont need to even file to the courts for that....and if we cant find it there we will attach it to your wages directly, and if thats an issue, dont worry im sure we can find something of yours to sell. by the way if your really unable to pay us we can take your driving license away, after all we havent fully crushed your soul untill we take your ability to earn a living away too 🙂 ( since to some that may sound like im exagerating... http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@benefits/documents/digitalasset/dg_198853.pdf or find it yourself by googling "what can csa do if i cant pay" )
Does it matter if my child turns 16 and doesnt go into further education but the mother says she has? ..what the nrp lie to us? no that simply wouldnt happen, but you can pay us to check (this is what i was told on the phone the other day when i asked when the CSA would let me have my life back.
Does it mean i can claim housing benifit, or council tax benifit, or what about legal aid to help me see my child? Nope your the nrp and therefore scum of a standard we wipe from our shoes, you have no dependent in the eyes of the law and therefore no help, oh btw if your getting working tax credit as you earn below what the government says you need to exist, kindly let us know so we can declare it as earnings and steal some of that too oh and no even though the CSA charge drops you further below what you need to exist we wont up your tax credits.
Does it matter i cant afford my priority bills/debts? theres no other priority then your CSA charge nrp, its for your child! how dare you be so selfish!
Does it matter im supposed to be on anti-depresents but cant afford them? Why would we care about an nrp`s health and well being lol just keep paying
I would compare the CSA to the Borg, the whole "resistance is futile" mantra should after all be thier slogan, but atleast the evilness of the borg was make believe, and they could be fought ofcourse.
Again, using the takehome pay calculator, a £12k per annum gives a month takehome of £915 per month
Under CSA2, for 2 children, the maintenance would be £183 per month, and under CSA3 it's £160 per month.
I agree that the CSA system is a long, long way from perfect, but to improve it on a case by case basis (which is the fairest way) would massively increase costs, which would almost certainly be passed on to the parents.
What take home pay calculator only takes 8.5% from gross? It should be more like 35% from gross.
Again, using the takehome pay calculator, a £12k per annum gives a month takehome of £915 per month
Under CSA2, for 2 children, the maintenance would be £183 per month, and under CSA3 it's £160 per month.
I agree that the CSA system is a long, long way from perfect, but to improve it on a case by case basis (which is the fairest way) would massively increase costs, which would almost certainly be passed on to the parents.
far better to lead low earners to the brink of suicide/starvation, then to risk the rp`s money after all.
Really, but NETT averages out at 35% from gross does it not, taking a 5% pension into account?
This reply is in response to actd's comment on page 6.
Again, using the takehome pay calculator, a £12k per annum gives a month takehome of £915 per month
Under CSA2, for 2 children, the maintenance would be £183 per month, and under CSA3 it's £160 per month.
I agree that the CSA system is a long, long way from perfect, but to improve it on a case by case basis (which is the fairest way) would massively increase costs, which would almost certainly be passed on to the parents.
far better to lead low earners to the brink of suicide/starvation, then to risk the rp`s money after all.
I want 50/50 custody with 50% of the benefits. I want to be able to afford to see and hold my children for multiple days every single week. Why is it I that will have to move into a bedsit , childless, while the mother has all the pleasure of a big house and the kids to hold every day.
By taking so much money from me and so stopping me from being able to house my kids has surely got to be breaching one or more of my and my kids human rights.
But, I am just another grain of sand and many fathers have already said the same, but nothing has changed for the better.
Again, using the takehome pay calculator, a £12k per annum gives a month takehome of £915 per month
Under CSA2, for 2 children, the maintenance would be £183 per month, and under CSA3 it's £160 per month.
I agree that the CSA system is a long, long way from perfect, but to improve it on a case by case basis (which is the fairest way) would massively increase costs, which would almost certainly be passed on to the parents.
far better to lead low earners to the brink of suicide/starvation, then to risk the rp`s money after all.
I want 50/50 custody with 50% of the benefits. I want to be able to afford to see and hold my children for multiple days every single week. Why is it I that will have to move into a bedsit , childless, while the mother has all the pleasure of a big house and the kids to hold every day.
By taking so much money from me and so stopping me from being able to house my kids has surely got to be breaching one or more of my and my kids human rights.
But, I am just another grain of sand and many fathers have already said the same, but nothing has changed for the better.
I know how you feel chap believe me. I know that one day i will get to see my daughter again, i will be part of her life, i know the csa will stop beating me into submission and let me live, let me be able to do things for my daughter and live my life too. its a long way away though but its the only thing that keeps me going, im sure its the same from most people in our situation
Really, but NETT averages out at 35% from gross does it not, taking a 5% pension into account?
This reply is in response to actd's comment on page 6.
Not sure where you are getting 35% from - aside from the pension, if you earn £32k per year gross, and are on the standard tax code, you will take home £24,578 per year - that's just over 23%, not 35%
If you are under CSA3, then the pension reduces your income further. If you are under CSA2, then a 5% pension would reduce the amount the CSA use to calculate the maintenance from £2048 per month, to £1945 per month.
One important point with the new workplace opt-in pensions - there is the option to reduce your tax bill by paying into the pension by salary sacrifice. This has the effect of reducing your gross pay without reducing your takehome pay. As I understand it, this is perfectly acceptable to the Inland Revenue. This would have the effect of reducing your maintenance payments slightly. However, before you act on this, get proper advice from a pension advisor (your employer may have a tame one when setting up the pensions) or contact the Inland Revenue to confirm.
What take home pay calculator only takes 8.5% from gross? It should be more like 35% from gross.
Don't forget, you don't pay any tax at all on the first £9400 of income, so if you earn £12k, you are only paying 20% tax on £2600 - that's why the overall tax percentage is so low (if you earn less than £9400 per year, you will pay no tax at all, just NI, and if you earn less than £7750 you don't even pay NI).
Because of this, and the higher tax band, the percentage overall deductions through tax and NI does increase as your pay increases, but you have to be earning around £100k before it gets to 35%
Really, but NETT averages out at 35% from gross does it not, taking a 5% pension into account?
This reply is in response to actd's comment on page 6.Not sure where you are getting 35% from - aside from the pension, if you earn £32k per year gross, and are on the standard tax code, you will take home £24,578 per year - that's just over 23%, not 35%
If you are under CSA3, then the pension reduces your income further. If you are under CSA2, then a 5% pension would reduce the amount the CSA use to calculate the maintenance from £2048 per month, to £1945 per month.
One important point with the new workplace opt-in mortgages - there is the option to reduce your tax bill by paying into the pension by salary sacrifice. This has the effect of reducing your gross pay without reducing your takehome pay. As I understand it, this is perfectly acceptable to the Inland Revenue. This would have the effect of reducing your maintenance payments slightly. However, before you act on this, get proper advice from a pension advisor (your employer may have a tame one when setting up the pensions) or contact the Inland Revenue to confirm.
What take home pay calculator only takes 8.5% from gross? It should be more like 35% from gross.
Don't forget, you don't pay any tax at all on the first £9400 of income, so if you earn £12k, you are only paying 20% tax on £2600 - that's why the overall tax percentage is so low (if you earn less than £9400 per year, you will pay no tax at all, just NI, and if you earn less than £7750 you don't even pay NI).
Because of this, and the higher tax band, the percentage overall deductions through tax and NI does increase as your pay increases, but you have to be earning around £100k before it gets to 35%
Sorry, I don't understand, what are opt in mortgages, and how does take home pay not get less if more go into pension.
Thanks, btw, for letting me know about take home pay calculators, I used it and it means when I do lose my job, I can look for even lesser paid jobs, if I can get any job at all, and break even at the lesser amount.
Sorry, my mistake - I meant opt-in pensions - the new workplace pension scheme. I've amended my post to show this now.
If you google takehome pay calculators, there are loads around, I use the MoneySavingsExpert calculator for this.
The way the salary sacrifice works is that if you earn, say £20k, and you pay £1k per year into your pension, your gross pay is still £20k. However, you can ask your employer to reduce your pay by £1k, meaning that your gross pay is £19k, and your employer pays the £1k directly into the pension. The same amount goes into your pension, your takehome pay goes down, BUT you aren't paying pension out of it, so it's no lower than when you were earning £20k and paying the pension out of your income. There may be other implications, and as I said, you really need to get independant advice as I am certainly not an expert on this - it's just something that came up when we were having workplace pensions explained where I work.
Ok I'm new here but have have some questions about these changes.
My situation like several others is an evil ex who is after as much money as she can get and screw what happens to me.
Split up 7 years ago I have 3 kids by her who are 14,12,9 and for a few years I paid her directly and we had no contact with the Csa at all. Then after about 2 years I met my now wife and the evil troll went to the Csa I was told what to pay and I paid her directly but then about a year later she contacted them saying I'd never paid. I disputed this and showed bank statements etc to prove payments were made, but that didn't matter cause the Csa member of staff who spoke to my ex told her to say it was not payments for maintenance so I got hit with huge arrears and then to rub salt in the they deducted straight from my pay.
My current wife and myself have had 2 children together (she has 2 kids previously to us ) so we have 7 kids between us. My wife set up her own business in 2012 and was doing ok I joined her and went self employed spoke to Csa they said I didn't have to pay anything if the business was not making money ( we expect by the end of 2014 to turn a profit) but the troll decided to have a fluid with the Csa again and so I had to prove my income which means our business which makes no money at the moment to provide an income to us and so was asked the question about what do we live on. Unfortunately I said about tax credits and since then we have been pushed to the brink (my wife especially) because the Csa decided that out of the child tax credits we receive in the household that I'm to pay my ex 15% of the tax credits ie money that is meant for my wife's children before me as well as our children so we are pushed from just treading water financially to being pushed under and held there by the Csa.
My question comes to the changes to the cms will it continue to punish people for moving on and having a new family and deduct money that is not even proportionately related to my children with my wife but all 4 kids that live at home. Will the arrears that I'm still paying off continue or will that be wiped clean when it switches to the cms .
I also see the Csa from the rp side as my wife has a nightmare with the other children's NPR and the Csa seem to do nothing but I know if I was to pull half the things that he has I'd get shafted by them but they do nothing to him we get £16 per week from him but pay out more then double that to my ex for 1 more child.
The Csa/CMs need to be made fair not this abomination that is geared to line the pockets of greedy ex's
Btw my ex has a new hubby who has a very high paid job £60 k + and I have started telling my kids to make sure they have phone credit etc ever week cause if I'm going to pay her money every week then my kids need to spend that money every week.
Hello
Unfortunately the arrears are carried forward, the only good thing with the new 2012 system is that they don't include your tax credits ( as CSA2 did) nor your partners wage (as CSA1 did)
The new 2012 will be your gross pay, minus pensions then a % applied for how many children live with you and a further % for the children you pay maintenance for
Hope that helps
Ok I'm new here but have have some questions about these changes.
My situation like several others is an evil ex who is after as much money as she can get and screw what happens to me.
Split up 7 years ago I have 3 kids by her who are 14,12,9 and for a few years I paid her directly and we had no contact with the Csa at all. Then after about 2 years I met my now wife and the evil troll went to the Csa I was told what to pay and I paid her directly but then about a year later she contacted them saying I'd never paid. I disputed this and showed bank statements etc to prove payments were made, but that didn't matter cause the Csa member of staff who spoke to my ex told her to say it was not payments for maintenance so I got hit with huge arrears and then to rub salt in the they deducted straight from my pay.
My current wife and myself have had 2 children together (she has 2 kids previously to us ) so we have 7 kids between us. My wife set up her own business in 2012 and was doing ok I joined her and went self employed spoke to Csa they said I didn't have to pay anything if the business was not making money ( we expect by the end of 2014 to turn a profit) but the troll decided to have a fluid with the Csa again and so I had to prove my income which means our business which makes no money at the moment to provide an income to us and so was asked the question about what do we live on. Unfortunately I said about tax credits and since then we have been pushed to the brink (my wife especially) because the Csa decided that out of the child tax credits we receive in the household that I'm to pay my ex 15% of the tax credits ie money that is meant for my wife's children before me as well as our children so we are pushed from just treading water financially to being pushed under and held there by the Csa.
My question comes to the changes to the cms will it continue to punish people for moving on and having a new family and deduct money that is not even proportionately related to my children with my wife but all 4 kids that live at home. Will the arrears that I'm still paying off continue or will that be wiped clean when it switches to the cms .
I also see the Csa from the rp side as my wife has a nightmare with the other children's NPR and the Csa seem to do nothing but I know if I was to pull half the things that he has I'd get shafted by them but they do nothing to him we get £16 per week from him but pay out more then double that to my ex for 1 more child.
The Csa/CMs need to be made fair not this abomination that is geared to line the pockets of greedy ex's
Btw my ex has a new hubby who has a very high paid job £60 k + and I have started telling my kids to make sure they have phone credit etc ever week cause if I'm going to pay her money every week then my kids need to spend that money every week.
Please take the time to email your Mp (you can find who your mp is here http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ ) I actually got a reply from mine today, he has raised the issue with another Mp (i guess its a case of its going up the ranks) if enough of us contact our Mp`s and let them know this system is wrong and unjust it WILL get changed, it wont happen for us, these things are too slow for that but it will stop the CSA from ruining more lifes later down the line. Nothing will change though while we stand idle and do nothing.
Why doesn't dad info start an e-petition.100,000 signatures and something has to be heard in parliament.
The new CMS system no longer include tax credits as an income for the NRP, so it would be a waste of time writing to your MP about that.
They also don't include the NRP partners wages like they used to pre 2003
The new system is basically a % of your gross wage only
Ok I'm new here but have have some questions about these changes.
My situation like several others is an evil ex who is after as much money as she can get and screw what happens to me.
Split up 7 years ago I have 3 kids by her who are 14,12,9 and for a few years I paid her directly and we had no contact with the Csa at all. Then after about 2 years I met my now wife and the evil troll went to the Csa I was told what to pay and I paid her directly but then about a year later she contacted them saying I'd never paid. I disputed this and showed bank statements etc to prove payments were made, but that didn't matter cause the Csa member of staff who spoke to my ex told her to say it was not payments for maintenance so I got hit with huge arrears and then to rub salt in the they deducted straight from my pay.
My current wife and myself have had 2 children together (she has 2 kids previously to us ) so we have 7 kids between us. My wife set up her own business in 2012 and was doing ok I joined her and went self employed spoke to Csa they said I didn't have to pay anything if the business was not making money ( we expect by the end of 2014 to turn a profit) but the troll decided to have a fluid with the Csa again and so I had to prove my income which means our business which makes no money at the moment to provide an income to us and so was asked the question about what do we live on. Unfortunately I said about tax credits and since then we have been pushed to the brink (my wife especially) because the Csa decided that out of the child tax credits we receive in the household that I'm to pay my ex 15% of the tax credits ie money that is meant for my wife's children before me as well as our children so we are pushed from just treading water financially to being pushed under and held there by the Csa.
My question comes to the changes to the cms will it continue to punish people for moving on and having a new family and deduct money that is not even proportionately related to my children with my wife but all 4 kids that live at home. Will the arrears that I'm still paying off continue or will that be wiped clean when it switches to the cms .
I also see the Csa from the rp side as my wife has a nightmare with the other children's NPR and the Csa seem to do nothing but I know if I was to pull half the things that he has I'd get shafted by them but they do nothing to him we get £16 per week from him but pay out more then double that to my ex for 1 more child.
The Csa/CMs need to be made fair not this abomination that is geared to line the pockets of greedy ex's
Btw my ex has a new hubby who has a very high paid job £60 k + and I have started telling my kids to make sure they have phone credit etc ever week cause if I'm going to pay her money every week then my kids need to spend that money every week.Please take the time to email your Mp (you can find who your mp is here http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/ ) I actually got a reply from mine today, he has raised the issue with another Mp (i guess its a case of its going up the ranks) if enough of us contact our Mp`s and let them know this system is wrong and unjust it WILL get changed, it wont happen for us, these things are too slow for that but it will stop the CSA from ruining more lifes later down the line. Nothing will change though while we stand idle and do nothing.
100% agree - we want to pay to the parent with care but she out of spitefulness wants us to go through CSA with no valid reason as to why!! 😡 😡 😡 😡
want to know how to fight this!
Hi Beron,
I've replied to your other post - it's not as bad as you think in your case.
After reading all information I can find on this topic I am struggling with a couple of issues and am hoping someone can help.
I am a rp who currently receives payment through the CSA via a direct debit payment made by the nrp. Due to the fact I have had almost no contact with the nrp for 8 years, my son is 9, I currently find this the most preferable solution to receiving maintenance for my son. I have never refused my ex access to my son, it is his choice not to be involved in his life. The only contact I have had with my ex was 2 years ago when he asked to start seeing his son, to which I agreed but told him I would like to start slow and set up a meeting between us to see how this would work. He then started stalling and said he wanted to sort out the financial sitution first, ie. stop paying CSA and pay me. I agreed until he said he felt the amount was unfair as one of his friends paid less and he wanted to almost halve his payment. When I refused on the grounds neither myself nor my son had any contact nor even an address for him he severed all contact again.
So my question is how am I supposed to contact my ex when I have no current details, will CSA provide me with these? And also does this mean I would either have to give a relative stranger my bank account details when he already knows my full name, dob, previous and current address etc?? Or if I understand this right and I have no proof of him not paying will I not be entitled to use the new collection service and could get nothing. In other words, what protects me from fraud passing on my details to him??
Also, I have a claim against my other ex who has full contact with my 2nd son but who has other children and it is easier for him to pay for all via CSA. I am happy to use direct payment but if his other ex refuses will they still take into consideration a direct payment for my son when calculating his other childrens maintenance or will I lose out as he will be unable to pay me as much as he will be worse off.
I have a compensation claim against the csa as they took 8 months to complete their calculations during which time I received nothing. I have applied for CSA to compensate me for this but, as usual with CSA, its going nowhere fast! Will this claim simply disappear when the CSA does? In other words can they continue to tell me there looking into it and havent made a decision yet til the end of time??
Thankyou, any advice greatly appreciated
Kate
Hi Kate,
First of all, we're sorry that you have struggled with irregular payments. CSA cases will be closed slowly over a 3 year period - so it could be a while before your cases are closed. You will be given 6 months notice before your cases are due to close. You then have 3 choices. A family based arrangement ( which sounds like it may be worth considering with the ex who has paid regularly), direct pay or collect & pay.
You can request collect & pay with your ex who has been a irregular payer. If he decides to contest this and request direct pay, the CMS will do a likely to pay test where they have certain criteria that they use to see if a paying parent is likely or not to make regular payments. Missed payments would mean that he would fail the likely to pay test. Of course being on Collect & Pay would mean that he would have to pay the Child Maintenance + 20% charge and you would also have 4% fee deducted from your maintenance before it's paid across to you.
You would also have to pay a one off £20 application fee when you first apply to the CMS.
I believe the CMS would make first contact with your ex after you have made you application ( I will speak to my contact at the DWP tomorrow to confirm this for you).
I hope this is of help.
Gooner
Hi guys n gals,
If you have come here today because of all the media coverage regarding CSA and Maintenance then please check out our article Child Maintenance - The truth behind the headlines for the most up to date info regarding the current situation.
Gooner.
wait
"The paying parent will be charged 20% of the maintenance amount in addition to the Child Maintenance payment.
The receiving parent will have 4% deducted 4% from their maintenance payment before it is passed to them."
how the [censored] is that fair?
i have struggled to pay for the last year the crippling fee CSA charge me, i havent missed a single payment even though on one month i had to live on bread a sack of spuds (not an exageration though i was rather unwell by the time the next payday came around) my credit is shot as i had to rely on my credit cards at the start.
so why am i worried im sure you thinking, my ex did a runner with my daughter, due to my daughters date of birth and my un married status i have little to no rights, she set the CSA on me who know where she is etc but will not tell me! so how can i pay her directly? i cant so her only option will be to enforce this! and i will be fined an additional 20% ontop of what i already cant afford.
The CSA needs to be reigned in and made to realise that low earners can not live on whats left of there paycheck after they have pandered to vicious ex's such as mine, it needs to be means tested, before people say "oh but if you lived with your daughter you would still pay more then that", probably yes but i would also get help via council tax benifit, housing benifit , child support etc etc, as this is seen as a bill and not a dependable i get no help at all!
The CSA just ruins lifes it does no good, well apart from the "good" for the evil woman(and im sure some men) that wield it like a weapon, a device to further ruin the lifes of those they have left, to ensure that person has no future, no hope of starting a new life, no chance at a happy existence. I guess in that respect the CSA win, they are fantastic at destroying peoples lifes.
If you feel thats harsh understand i work eat sleep and maybe once every other month i get to buy myself something to make life more bearable so long as its cheap. On a side note to any one that works at the CSA who may see this, when someone calls up and asks for leeway for a month so they can eat, "if you do not pay we will take it directly from your bank, you could be fined and if we cant retrieve it you may go to prision" shows just how evil your organisation is, how the [censored] do you sleep at night
The other main thing CSA need to do, access rights to see the child should be mandatory, no access, no payment simple as that. [censored] the only way i know my daughter is ok is the fact im still being charged each month from CSA
As I understand it, the paying parent won't be forced onto the collect and pay if the receiving parent is simply refusing to accept payment by this means. As long as you pay on time, you shouldn't have to pay the charges.
As I understand it, the paying parent won't be forced onto the collect and pay if the receiving parent is simply refusing to accept payment by this means. As long as you pay on time, you shouldn't have to pay the charges.
I hope thats the case but if she refuses to give me the details to pay how can i pay direct, i know that would be her fault and logicly they should just tell her "give the details or dont get the money" but its been my experience that the CSA view the nrp as scum and the rp as a saint and are more then bias.
sorry for the harsh tones but these expletitives have ruined the last year of my life and will no doubt continue to untill my daughter is 16 (or 18) or untill they actually start means testing nrp and rp and coming with a fair payment
I hope thats the case but if she refuses to give me the details to pay how can i pay direct, i know that would be her fault and logicly they should just tell her "give the details or dont get the money" but its been my experience that the CSA view the nrp as scum and the rp as a saint and are more then bias.
sorry for the harsh tones but these expletitives have ruined the last year of my life and will no doubt continue to untill my daughter is 16 (or 18) or untill they actually start means testing nrp and rp and coming with a fair payment
It is the case, the only way that you will go onto Collect & Pay is if both parents agree to it or if the paying parent is proved to be, unlikely to pay. To be proved unlikely to pay you need to have missed payments whilst on a Child Maintenance Service scheme. People with missed payments on the old CSA schemes start again with a clean slate as far as missed payments history goes (that doesn't mean that debts will be written off just that payment history will not be carried across). So there is no reason that you won't go on Direct Pay and then as long as you don't miss a payment you won't end up on Collect & Pay.
I hope this helps.
Gooner
Hi Kate,
I have spoken to my contact at the DWP and here is the score straight from the horses mouth.
You ex with a history of not paying will be able to go on to Direct Pay first but the first time he misses a payment, you need to call the CMS and they will move you across to Collect & Pay. He basically gets one chance to make regular payments. As for tracking him down that is the CMS's job. They have a track and trace service - you only need supply them with his name and date of birth. They will make the initial contact with him etc.
I hope this is of help.
Gooner
I hope thats the case but if she refuses to give me the details to pay how can i pay direct, i know that would be her fault and logicly they should just tell her "give the details or dont get the money" but its been my experience that the CSA view the nrp as scum and the rp as a saint and are more then bias.
sorry for the harsh tones but these expletitives have ruined the last year of my life and will no doubt continue to untill my daughter is 16 (or 18) or untill they actually start means testing nrp and rp and coming with a fair payment
It is the case, the only way that you will go onto Collect & Pay is if both parents agree to it or if the paying parent is proved to be, unlikely to pay. To be proved unlikely to pay you need to have missed payments whilst on a Child Maintenance Service scheme. People with missed payments on the old CSA schemes start again with a clean slate as far as missed payments history goes (that doesn't mean that debts will be written off just that payment history will not be carried across). So there is no reason that you won't go on Direct Pay and then as long as you don't miss a payment you won't end up on Collect & Pay.
I hope this helps.
Gooner
After hearing that im guessing for direct pay they would need to give me a way to contact my ex, which could lead to contact (well atleast ill know where my daughter is)
have never missed a payment even though a few times it hasnt left me with enough to live on (not that the CSA care about that ofcourse, the health and well being of the nrp is irrelevant provided they get thier pound of flesh, yeah im very bitter about it but im sure anyone in my situation would be/is )
Going to make a coffee, calm myself, and call them to get transfered to the new system, im guessing it will take a few weeks but with luck it will mean i can see my daughter again
EDIT
i hate talking to the CSA, it will take up to 3 years for my case to be switched to the new system, under the new system there is a chance ill pay less (but the fact that im paying more now is irrelevent and no overpayment will be considered even though im paying more under the old scheme then i would under the new...yep thats fair) and no they would not organise contact under the new scheme as "it is not our job to organise contact with your child that is the job of a solicitor" yeah, ill go hire one now, it was a year ago i last talked to one and was advised that it could cost several thousand (including fees to find her) and that courts side with the mother specialy if she claims there was domestic violance involved, which aparently they nearly all do (which would then put my job in jeopardy too) there is also no legal aid for family law cases.
I stress to add the only violance was from her not me.
well im off to have another coffee, watch some comedy and make a fuss of the cat take my mind of how fucked my life is thanks to the CSA, hay in 3 years time if it is lowered i may be able to afford to eat AND have a social life yay
sorry new on here, my first post was for post 37007 william the child maintenance option consultant.
Hi,
I am new to this site, so apologies if this has been covered already.
I have been paying my ex maintenance money directly for the last four and a half years. I was assessed by the CSA on how much I should pay, and I make that payment directly to her. I have never missed a payment, and for the last year I have been paying more than I should be.
4 weeks ago I was contacted by the CSA, stating that my ex wanted to go to the new scheme and that I would be making payments directly to the CSA and not her. I was reassessed at the same time. I asked why I was moving to the new scheme and I was told that the new scheme is better for both parents, and it encourages parents to work together, ideally with me making payments directly to my ex!!!!! Which is exactly what I have been doing for the last four and a half years!
After long, frustrating discussions with the CSA on the phone, I just couldn't work out why I was having to change to the new scheme and pay them directly when the old way worked perfectly well. However, having just found out that at some point an 'admin' fee will be introduced, everything fell into place......especially when I found out it was 20% of what I pay her!
The CSA did go onto say that on the new scheme, if payment are made on time and of the correct amount, there is no reason why I should be able to revert back to paying my ex directly, meaning I don't have to pay the 20% admin fee. However, this is something that the NRP has to request.
Just thought I would put this out there..................
Cases are being transferred to the new CMS from the CSA over the next 3 or 4 years, so it's possible that your is being transferred now. The CMS calculation is doe on 12%/16%/20% of gross income compared to the CSA calculation of 15%/20%/25% of net income. The charge is 20% for the paying parent, and 7% for the receiving parent if collect and pay is used, but if direct pay is used (which is what you are doing), then these fees don't apply. Since you don't have any arrears, I don't see any reason why you can't go straight onto direct pay and avoid the charges.
Hello
Using the Collect and Pay service via the Child Maintenance Service, under the government's plans the paying parent must pay a 20% fee on top of each child maintenance payment collected by the Child Maintenance Service. The receiving parent is charged a 4% fee each time the Child Maintenance Service passes on a child maintenance payment to them, along with the £20 application fee. Via the Direct Pay option there would only be the application fee.
Either parent can request to use the Direct Pay service, however, there are alternative ways that child maintenance can be arranged. For more information on the different ways to set up child maintenance and for a more personalised service, you can visit the Child Maintenance Options website at http://www.cmoptions.org.
The DWP have a sorting out separation web-app that you may find useful. It offers help and support to separating and separated families. The link is: www.dad.info/divorce-and-separation/sorting-out-separation.
Regards
William
Its my understanding that when the new system is inplace its up to us to organise direct payment. BUT if the mother decides she does not want direct payment (or if she decides the amount she is getting is unfair) then she can go to the CSA to organise it through them, she will have to pay £20 to get it organised and then payments are done via CSA. At this point the CSA take an extra 20% ontop of the crippling 15% they already leech from the nrp ! they then take 7% of the money for themselfs and pass the rest on to the rp. (this is what the citizens advice have told me)
Bear in mind even if i tell them im willing to make direct payments all she has to do is say, no he isnt and refuse to give me details to actually pay her.
Now this will be fantastic news to my ex, she can damage my life even further, and i doubt she is alone in this.
The CSA is a very bias and evil organisation, they say thier goal is to help the children get a fair amount as if the father is living there....they dont take in account that if the mother is living with a new man then the child is already in a home with the same income there was, that a father on min wage cant afford to lose 15% let alone 15%+fee of his wage and eat. Im all for providing for your child but it MUST be in a way that is fair to all partys and doesnt leave the father (or anyone) in poverty.
Im dreading the new system (to the point of losing sleep) i feel it will be the end of me. I already live like a hermit and have become very familier with smart price foods and generic bland coffee. [censored] its taken me 6 months to save up the £220 i need for the license renew of my job...6 months! My life thanks to an evil ex and the csa is [censored] and at times [censored] near unbearable. Maybe it would not be so bad if my daughter was part of my life but after finally managing to track them down my daughter wants nothing to do with me, shouldnt surprise me that she has been turned against me but still it hurts.
The CSA is nothing but a very effective weapon used by ex's to ruin and destroy the lifes of the fathers.
It needs a complete change,
both income and outgoings(rent/utility) of both nrp and rp households need to be taken into account so that the amount is fair and does not cripple either household.
access needs to be part of the CSA (unless the nrp represents a danger to the rp or child, as proven by police records, or some such evidence to avoid abuse)
just those two changes would make a difference, but hay im shouting into a hurricane, untill my daughter is 16 i have no life, if this new charge system comes in and is how the cab described it then i may end up unemployed, i just dont see how i would afford to stay in work and that to put it politly is f**ked up
Its my understanding that when the new system is inplace its up to us to organise direct payment. BUT if the mother decides she does not want direct payment (or if she decides the amount she is getting is unfair) then she can go to the CSA to organise it through them, she will have to pay £20 to get it organised and then payments are done via CSA. At this point the CSA take an extra 20% ontop of the crippling 15% they already leech from the nrp ! they then take 7% of the money for themselfs and pass the rest on to the rp. (this is what the citizens advice have told me)
Bear in mind even if i tell them im willing to make direct payments all she has to do is say, no he isnt and refuse to give me details to actually pay her.Now this will be fantastic news to my ex, she can damage my life even further, and i doubt she is alone in this.
Hi mrgreaper,
That's not quite correct. The default scheme that everyone goes onto with the Child Maintenance Service is Direct Pay - which you will not be charged for using.
The only way that you can go on to the Collect and Pay Scheme is if both the paying parent and the receiving parent request to go on the scheme or if the paying parent fails to make payments whilst on the Direct Pay scheme.
Even paying parents with a history of not making regular payments whilst on a CSA scheme will start on the Direct Pay scheme when they eventually move to the CMS.
You ex will have to provide you with details so that you are able to pay her. If she refuses then I would advise that you talk to the CMS directly and discuss with them.
I am sorry to read that you have struggled financially recently and not had contact with your daughter. Access and maintenance are two different things in the eyes of the law and are not linked. It must feel incredibly frustrating.
Gooner.
It's a total scam they don't want you to be able to come to an agreement they just want to scam you for every extra penny they can.
Over the 12 or so years my ex and I have been split up she has gone to and from the CSA as and when she feels like it. About three years ago I was made redundant and started doing some contract work so we come to an agreement where I'd pay her direct in to her bank account. About six weeks ago I received a letter saying that I owed nearly £2,000 of arrears but when I rang them up it was to do with the past three years. Five weeks ago I sent them copies of my bank statements proving I've paid far in excess of that figure and today they've finally rang me and said that without my ex ringing them to confirm she's receiving the money they are still going to hit me with a deduction of earnings!!! They even told me to stop paying her which they then backtracked on.
Now I have to go down the road of trying to locate my ex and get hold of her to ring them. Isn't that their job? They'd be quick enough to target me if she got in touch the useless scumbags.
hi bradders
I'm afraid that in your case, it's not really the CSA at fault - they can only act on information they have been given, and they can't backdate to before that information is given. When you came to the private arrangement, your ex should have informed the CSA and asked them to close the case (and if she didn't, you should have informed them about the arrangement and your redundancy and stuck to their calculation until the case was closed). It does sound as though it's more of your ex's fault in this instance.
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