[Solved] "Financial Benifit" to mothers - reducing access!

I agree with you, its perverse and sends out the wrong messages.

I would say that if the court were to be made aware of a parent actively using their child for financial gain, they would take a dim view of it and would make a defined order for overnight stays etc. I also think that whilst it does seem that contact orders can easily be flouted, if it keeps being returned to court for enforcement, eventually there will be a very real threat of further action, fines and even imprisonment....Although extremely rare, I have read case histories where this has happened. I would imagine that many cases dont get that far, as once the errant parent realizes what could happen, they toe the line.

But the system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be changed. Fathers are treated like second class citizens and often come off worse....Money is at the root of the unfairness, as many Dads dont have the financial clout to fight for their rights through the court system, especially when the mothers are usually entitled to free legal representation.

Can you confirm that mothers are entitled to free legal advice in this process which is what you have noted[even if they are working]? - My experience is ex-partner (who have specific example of in the legal profession) and am in mediation with takes ages - they know all the loop holes have used them and with little so far action arranging dates etc ! they should theoretically have a higher standard of care or respect for the law you would think, I can’t see evidence of any repercussions or penalties, repeated visitations to court isn’t the answer as they seldom get penalised and know this, for not complying with orders, in my opinion this is a mess and abusive to fathers something needs to be elevated to try to bring about change (Spiderman suits worked previously).++ tip to note in my view is bring the argument to the floor of your partner using finacial gain to prevent overnight access++

...To qualify for legal aid, which covers the cost of mediation too, the applicant must either be unemployed or on a low income, and that applies to both mother and father. I believe there are Dads that have become unemployed just to be able to qualify for free legal representation...and of course no CSA!! This to my mind is extreme, and what a person gains in freebies, is lost in self esteem! I can understand the desperation that might push a person towards this course of action though!

I agree that the system needs to change, it is improving very slowly, the ratio of fathers winning more contact and even residency is increasing, but it needs to go a lot further yet.

It is very unfair and certainly stacked up against the decent hard working fathers out here fighting for the right to see their kids!

i earn a fairly reasonable wage.....but due to aquiring significant debts while being with my ex....and the just short of £10k legal bill i've aquired fighting for contact....i find myself struggling from one month to the next....while she there sitting pretty paid for by mine and your taxes...maintenance that should be going directly to my son and bleeding the benefits system dry!!!

the option for a working father is.....get made redundant....make life difficult to get a job.....and then you'll get free legal help to see your kids!!!
is there any wonder why the generations following us are not wanting work and just want to have kids and get a house!!!! - Jeremy Kyle fodder!!!

who is there to really help a struggling working father?.....easy one this one....yourself

Can't remember if we've been through this before - were your debts run up during the relationship for items that your ex uses - furniture, house improvements etc? Is so, you could possibly apply for a variation to get maintenance reduced.

im having exactly this problem it makes me sick that my child is being used as a weapon and cash machine

I guess the point here is what can or are lobby groups doing to try to change this position (who do Dad info have a route to raise these sort of issues?) so we dont all have to suffer such situations.

There is still F4J battling away, they are less in the media glare now that they no longer see themselves as activists (so no more spiderman costumes). Their activism actually brought the inequalitiesof UK family law into the public domain but at the cost of being labelled "nutters" by womens groups who the media seem to hold up upon a pedestal even though most of the statistics they spout have been proved to be completely made up.
Their new campaign method of using the media by taking out adverts and using social media seems to work better imo but fighting against an entrenched womens rights movement of 40 years standing is a major uphill struggle.

Theres also FNF (families need fathers) but as they are actually sponsored by and large by the government I'm unsure if they do any good in changing the law or if they are just a puppy for whoever is in government to feed a few crumbs to and pat on the head occasionaly.

The main problem is that there seems to be very little that any group can do to gain justice in this country, even the famous online petitions launched by the government are a scam. If you get 100,000 people to sign the petition it just gets put in from of a committee to see if they want to persue it further. If the petition is not politically positive then you can bet it'll be sat at the the bottom of the box by the time the committee retires for a sumptious lunch at taxpayers expense.

Whilst politicians see the womens vote as crucial and continue to court it with zero self respect (Cameron at mumsnet for example) they will continue to turn a blind eye to the plight of good fathers having their children ripped away from them.
Don't get pulled into believing the latest paper on shared residency, the caveats in that make it almost worthless because all mum has to do is make false allegations of domestic violence (pretty much the norm for embittered ex's now) and the SR gets ignored.
Also, 30% recommended SR for dad??? It takes 2 to make a child but only 1 based upon their gender required to raise it!!!

Anyway, thats my tuppence worth apart from saying that despite the massive fight ahead we have to keep trying to over-turn this sexist inequality at work in the UK otherwise our sons and grandsons will suffer the same nightmares so many men have from our generation.

[gets off soap box and walks away hoping people realise he's just a dad who cares for his kids]
:}

I'm going through this now - My ex decided that as I did not agree to her terms to have my youngest daughter on the days she "offered" she then decided to reduce access totally and applied to the CSA even though I make regular payment every month without fail.

She even admitted to the fact that basically what she says goes unless I go through the whole court process which can take months - My daughter is only 5 months old and I need regular access to be able to bond with her.

My ex uses my child against me emotionally and now financially as she knows I'm struggling to make ends meet due to debt from a previous relationship and child support I currently pay for my other 2 children. Basically if I don't agree to her terms all access will be stopped - Her terms are basically all weekends so she can go out and spend the child support money on drink and socialising.

Make me sick :sick:

no offense guys, but you all sound like you been caught with your pants down and are now dealing with the fallout.if your relationship was failing with your partner in the first place then you have to find "leverage"
that is to say an ultimate point of decision where both parties cannot dispute any results of findings of naughty behaviour and the decision to part has to be mutual not angry! and thereafter it is only the children that come first , not trying to get the ex into bed , for "payment" of taking the child to mcdonalds for an hour

ok.....what about those of us who didn't cheat on the ex's then?.......what about those of us who have sat and wathed our ex's ruin our happiness of being a parent?......what about those of us here who had to walk away to protect ourselves? ..... what about those of us who walked away so that we would be able to spend time with our kids without it being controlled where you go...what you do...who you introduce to them....

ah well....my ex seems to think that she can do anything....go anywhere...and introduce new guys to my child within 8mth of leaving! then to promote him in my childs life by stopping me from seeing my child.......fair? nah that called control......you either do as she says and get no time with your child or you take legal action to ensure you see your child and then get a whole world of shite heaped on you for "daring to challenge her word"
not once does she think that this is a father doing all he can to protect his bond with his child!!!

I agree regrettably its about leverage and ultimately if you are self employed using gorilla tactics to pay yourself he minimum wage and therefore reduce unreasonable payments to your ex, or even make yourself redundant to have more time to spend with your kids, this isn't a great situation at all and I ask when and who will bring about reform.

Keep strong dads, this sort of communication shows me I am not alone.

I can only talk from personal experience of what I consider "Unreasonable" and "Inconsiderate" restrictions being placed on me and our child by my ex - to only “be allowed“to have our child 1DPW and not allowing overnight access, controlling venue, time and date of any time spent together, clearly this is not in the best interest of the child or conducive to developing cooperation relations or in my opinion a sign of acting in a balanced manner. Having tried private discussions, mediation twice where the mediator suggested we take legal advice and also a legal round the table meeting still with no change - I regrettably had no option but to take court action, Once you get into the process then “the gloves were off“ regrettably this then requires CAFCASS reports to check parents background, criminal records etc. and also conduct home visits to see if you are both capable of looking after your child (which we have all passed but protocol is needed to be followed) as a judge normally won't take the step give overnight without a recommendation from a social worker, be it privately paid or funded by the government. Following the "system" takes at least 16 weeks so in the interim you and your child keep suffering from lack of access and unreasonable behaviour manifesting itself through "control". The legal system is built up of precedent and protocol and works at a snail’s pace, most are really glorified civil servants and well that speaks for itself, I’ve had court orders issued which are poorly drafted and had to be re drafted and issued (after pointing this out to the court) plus what's ironic is none of the judges are consistent in their approaches and decisions. It costs you time and money to get some form of resolution, my initial estimate was 15k now I'm at 30k+ and 5 months later, I think it will be resolved within 2 months but what options do you have as a dedicated father but to fight for your child’s rights to see their parents, one day your access and influence will reveal itself and as a result they will make their own mind up on things, Its a very rocky road but has to be worth it. Good dads who follow the system and are dedicated im my opinion get a rough ride when their partners are unreasonable, it may be very different if there were penalties, indeed if the parent doesn’t allow overnight access then if she were penalised for this through the CSA I’m sure it would be a different story. It always the lowest common denominator that they work to which is unfair, finally what is or can be done about this - that’s the real question, no point us moaning on - on forums we need action to help other fathers who will no doubt have to go through the same as we suffer.

no there are no debts regrettably to offset