Welcome to the DAD.Info forum: Important Information – open to read:
Our forum aims to provide support and guidance where it can, however we may not always have the answer. The forum is not moderated 24 hours a day, so If you – or someone you know – are being harmed or in immediate danger of being harmed, call the police on 999.
Alternatively, if you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123.
If you are worried about you or someone you know is at risk of harm, please click here: How we can help
update
Nov 2021 - Submitted Enforcement order as mother failed to allow contact on more the 7 occasion. court scheduled the hearing to be heard at the same time as the final hearing on 14th Feb 2021.
14th Feb 2022 - Court dismissed the enforcement order on the basis it was for the childrens safety??? utter [censored].
Cross examined the cafcass officer and she was completly bias towards the mother. even showed them where she lied on her statements and completly ignored them.
Cafcass then recommended that it should change from once a month video call to Indirect contact once a month.
I disagreed and offered contact once a week, for 1 month, then 2 days with midweek pick up for 4 weeks then overnight weekend stays.
Judge setup another final hearing for 18th of March 2022
So at the moment they have written an order for Indirect contact till 18th of March, where as before it was phone calls everyday from 6 to 6:30pm.
Come 18th March I will still be refusing to do the DAPP course as it has been based on lies and cannot see any guratnee access even when the course has been completed.
@liarliarpantsonfire having re read the thread and the advice given, based on the allegations and refusal to do the DAPP plus focusing on proving lies etc I can see why the court may have amended the order to indirect contact. Unfortunately it is just the way the courts/cafcass/judges will see things.
Things will only change in your favour if you focus on the bigger picture (seeing the kids), play the system to your advantage (accept without evidence you are in this position and therefore need to follow the processes determined) and build a relationship with your kids so that in the future if THEY raise the matter that you talk them through your version of events and let them decide.
In the absence of doing the above, it appears (to the courts etc) that your main objective is to prove the mother/cafcass/courts wrong rather than focusing on the kids and seeing them which in itself could be considered a safeguarding issue and therefore the mother feels the need to stop contact to keep the children safe.
Im sorry you are in this position it cannot be easy, however, I would suggest taking a step back and reflecting on your next steps as other posters have previously advised.
All the best.
Hi
I had the final court hearing on 18th of March, I continued to refuse the DAPP course, which I no regret as they are now only providing indirect contact once a month.
How can i appeal now and tell them I will accept the DAPP course.
Not been able to eat properly, crying everyday. psychiatrist booked in for tomorrow. Getting very desperate to the point I message the ex to apologies and sent her Mothers day card despite the NMO in place! I think I have screwed up and right no don't care about losing my job. I feel she is keeping me out of Jail now to keep the child maintenance going otherwise I would of been arrested now from the text message i sent her.
Hi,
Pleased you've reached out again. It must be really tough.. If you are going to accept doing the Dapp programme at this stage then I think you need to tackle things differently to ensure maximum success. The last thing you want to do is do the course and still find issues with contact. In essence you need a plan/strategy to move things forward. What is the reason for seeing a psychiatrist rather than a counsellor? You may need to take some time out from the situation re trying to see your kids and instead focus on getting yourself well and in the right frame of mind for the upcoming challenges. Things will be tough before they get better, the course itself isn't just about attending but also participating and accepting things. You may be asked to talk about aspects of your behaviour in a group setting and your ability to do this will determine the reports produced and whether you ultimately get any child contact.
Therefore having a plan will allow you to focus on moving forward with your life with a view to getting contact with child. Otherwise there is a risk that having denied things right the way through, that you are now conceding not because you accept things but out of desperation which the experts will pick up and report on. On the other hand, if you are in the right place then you can pretty much fly through the course even partially accepting things without it having too much of an impact on you as you will know this is something you are having to do in order to get contact (say and do what you have to, regardless of what may or may not have happened).
You don't need to appeal the hearing but instead revisit your existing application (I'd suggest contacting the court or legal advisor). If you give it a little bit of time since the hearing eg 4 weeks, then in the meantime you can focus on yourself and when you contact the court you can confidently say that you have given it lots of thought and now accept what has happened and wish to do the course.
The process down this route may mean further court hearings or you may be accepted directly onto the course (you may want to speak to Cafcass for guidance here), there may be a waiting list, but also remember that you may not get any contact until you are half way through the course (roughly 3 months as course is 6 months long) and the interim report on you is written up by the course facilitators. This is really important hence your engagement on the course is reviewed.
In relation to the texts and cards and the NMO, I would strongly suggest that you do not make any further contact as you otherwise risk arrest. Should this happen (arrest/conviction etc) then it will severely impact your ability to contact child as you will be considered a dangerous individual where even court orders have no impact. Not only would you need to do the course but contact may be supervised and slowly built up.
Also give consideration to what indirect contact looks like, just so that you do not leave it too long and it will also help you to process things and take a step forward and build from this. Plus when you start the course ask whether you can get any direct contact at all even supervised so that it is built up whilst you are doing the course.
I hope the above helps.
All the best.
Ps, I know in your message you said you don't care about losing your job, however, at some point you will get contact with child. Your job will provide an income for you to provide for child when with you, will give you stability and a routine when not with child, will allow you to focus on something other than the situation. As long as its financially feasible then try to hold it down. If you need some time off then arrange that and go away to recharge and plan.
Looking through your thread, there is a lot of bitterness which is understandable but at some point you have to turn things around and take a different approach/strategy. Think of the long game which is getting contact.
Even when you do get contact, until child is at least 18 I would suggest you remain child focused and avoid saying anything about your relationship with ex to avoid losing contact again and having to go through all this.
I know it's not going to be easy, the journey will be long, but you can defo do this.
Daddyup
thanks, how can i appeal or go back to the court to say i will do the course?
I have emailed the courts and not getting any response from them.
I going to walk to their office in east london and ask for them to look at it.
Can anything be done after the final hearing has been set??
I would contact Cafcass in the first instance and see what they say. How long has it been since you last emailed the courts that you are thinking of going in already?
Do you have any current legal rep or self repping?
It is always possible to change things, but it will need to be signed off by the courts and at this stage you will need to accept either no contact or restricted direct/indirect contact (however your ex and the courts determine) whilst doing the course. You need to be in the right frame of mind and ensure that All communication with the courts, Cafcass etc is in line with how they would expect (professional, child focused etc) so that they can see you've had a genuine change of heart etc.
Good luck with things.
Appeal a court decision: civil and family appeals (EX340)
How to appeal against a decision in civil and family court cases.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeal-a-court-decision-civil-and-family-appeals-ex340
I spoke to the court and they said if you appeal it will go to a higher court.... The thing is will I get anywhere with that???
I just left it at just put me on the DAPP course too much time has passed by
Appealing won't get you anywhere unless you have anything significantly new to add.
When you asked to be put onto the Dapp course, what did they advise would be the next steps, timescales, process etc?
@Daddyup they said it will be past on to their legal team and maybe couple of months
Will the legal team arrange for you to do the course or for a new hearing?
With it being a few months yet, I would suggest contacting Cafcass to see what they advise in relation to the course itself and providers, current waiting lists, the process to get onto it etc once the court approves.
Unfortinately at this stage, you will just have to go through the motions and follow the processes prescribed and accept and seek support to handle the fact that it could be quite a significant period of time before the courts will allow agree to change the contact requirements. However, in the meantime work on a plan to ensure that upon completion of the course you are most lilely to get some form of direct contact. Eg, sorting your mental health, looking after your physical well being, holding down employment, having secure 1accommodation for yourself and in the future for child. Build a life that you child can share, that you can talk about in court so that you are child focused.
You may also want to consider some legal advice too in order to ensure that there aren't any other avenues or processes to consider.
Keep reaching out on the forum too.
Daddyup
Welcome to the DAD.info forum.
We don’t like to set ‘rules’, but to make sure that you and the other dads are kept safe, we have some requests. When engaging with the forum, please be aware of the following:
- The forum is not moderated 24 hours per day.
- Many of the moderators do so on a voluntary basis. Whilst they may be able to provide some guidance, advice or support, they may not be able to deal with specifics.
- We are not an emergency crisis service so if you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call emergency services.
- If you are concerned about the safety of a child, please click here to find the support you can get for them (link to new page)
- If you are in crisis, please call Samaritans on 116 123. They are open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.
We hope you find this forum a supportive environment and thank you for joining us.